To be outraged that HMRC have written solely to DH regarding child benefit changes?

[dolcelatte]

My DH has today received notification from HMRC about the changes to Child Benefit. The letter says that if the changes apply to you or your partner 'you should jointly decide' what to do. There is an attached 'helpsheet' which commences 'Am I affected' and then goes on to ask questions about DH and partners' income, what the options are, what needs to be done ie give up child benefit or keep getting it and be taxed on it.

Now, perhaps I have misunderstood the position, but my understanding was that child benefit was generally paid to the mother; yet I have heard nothing form HMRC. Instead, it appears that I am being treated as the 'little woman' - or rather not being acknowledged at all - whilst my DH is being asked to give information about my income and make decisions on behalf of the family without reference to me.

AIBU to think that HMRC should at least have written to both of us about this?

[AThingInYourLife]

"I don't know why they can't just increase the tax credits amount and abolish cb altogether."

There is no way on earth tax credits will be increased.

If CB is abolished, then that will be the end of it.

A simple, universal benefit paid to all parents.

I'm so sorry to see it go.

[ceeveebee]

I am guessing the only reason that they are clawing back through partners tax is because there are some cb claimants who are in relationships where their partner does not support them properly financially and so they are reliant on receiving Cb directly from the state.
Partners income is already taken into account for all other benefits including tax credits so this is not really that different. At least doing it this way means they carry on receiving it.

But it's a ridiculously complicated method.I don't know why they can't just increase the tax credits amount and abolish cb altogether.

I for one have already elected not to receive cb - although I do already have to do a tax return, I would rather not claim money that I don't really need.

[catgirl1976]

[AThingInYourLife]

:o

The Keep on Pissing principle :o

[catgirl1976]

Oh. True. Hadn't thought of it like that.

But still, writing to the other person would piss all over the principle some more. Although I suppose, once you have pissed on something once, you might as well carry on.

[AThingInYourLife]

You can't uphold the principle of individual taxation if you are taxing one person based on money received by the other person.

[catgirl1976]

Eh? Surely by only writing to the people who pay the tax, they are upholding the principle of individual taxation for more than if they wrote to people who didn't pay the tax. Despite suggesting that people may wish to discuss it with thier spouses.

[AThingInYourLife]

"Why would you expect HMRC to write to you about your husbands tax?"

Because this new move pisses all over the principle of individual taxation.

Why are HMRC writing to people and instructing them on what they should be discussing with theirs spouses?

[AThingInYourLife]

"Cogito, what you say makes perfect sense; why not just dispense with CB altogether and adjust the system accordingly."

Oh, this is the plan.

First cut a benefit for the moderately well off with loads of flannel about how they don't need it.

Then you have their support when you axe it for everybody.

And the welfare state is taken apart plank by plank.

Basically people with children will pay more tax than those without. It is a fucking outrage.

Child benefit was fair and cheap. And now it is on the way out.

The rest of the system is being adjusted anyway, and not in a way that benefits the poor. Since they are just scroungers sponging off the state. Apparently

And it won't save money. Getting higher rate tax payers to do self assessment returns will just mean most of them will claw it back by claiming allowances they didn't know about/bother with.

[catgirl1976]

I got our letter because I am the higher rate tax payer.

Why would you expect HMRC to write to you about your husbands tax?

[Bagofspiders]

So in theory, if I carry on claiming CB and don't tell DH, HE will end up being fined for not filling out a self assessment from .

[dolcelatte]

I have now received my letter from HMRC.....

In the meantime, my DH treid to contact HMRC and was informed that they could not possibly discuss the position with him as the CB was mine!

Cogito, what you say makes perfect sense; why not just dispense with CB altogether and adjust the system accordingly.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"Surely there must be a simpler way of doing this.....? "

The simpler way would be to dispense with CB all together and beef up the Child Tax Credit system. However, this isn't going to be a massive cost to HMRC... quite the opposite. What will happen is that quite a lot of people will opt out completely (so big savings there) and another big chunk will opt to go self-assessment which is what HMRC have wanted for a long time because it saves them a lot of work.

FWIW if you are a HRTaxpayer and you go self-assessment you can claim back for things like private pension contribs and charitable donations... something you can't do with PAYE so easily.

[mynameisalexdrake]

My H is a high rate taxpayer on PAYE. He recieved the letter, we discussed it and decided to opt of receiving payments as we didn't want him to have to start submitting a self assessment every year only to repay most of the CB in tax. It was only me (as the recipient of the CB) that could actually opt out. I received confirmation via post that the payments will stop in January. Don't see the problem with this or how it makes me the 'little woman'.

As far as pension credit goes, as far as I am aware, this won't be affected. Everyone who receives CB at the moment is still 'entitled' to it after the change until their children are at the age where payment would stop anyway. It is this 'entitlement' that keeps the pension credit going.

It would only be an issue for new parents where one parent is to be a stay at home parent. In this case they would still have to register for CB to show 'entitlement' then opt out of recieving the payments.

[dolcelatte]

Having read all of the posts to date I am now utterly confused! What a shambles - the cost of the admin and bureaucracy in implementing such a complicated system must be immense. Surely there must be a simpler way of doing this.....?

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

"It belies the progress was made that a husband and wife would be taxed jointly."

Tax is still treated entirely separately. Most benefits take into account both partners. Tax Credits & Housing Benefit go on household income. CB is now determined by the highest earner in the household. Not a retrograde step.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

YABU... my letter was addressed to me as I'm the higher rate tax-payer. Already do self-assessment so there's no extra cost to HMRC.

[Startail]

Sorry I can't get the spell checker to work on this kindle.

[Startail]

you loose your pension credits if you are a SAHM if you don't claim CB.

I loose my soon anyway as DD2 will be 12

See previous rants on here about Labour and Conservative's view of SAHM mothers of older DCs.

Apart from leaving DDs alone for long periods in the holidays with no public transport and nowhere in easy cycling distance.

There is the small.matter of how the hell do you just walk into a job after 14 years as a SAHM.

Oh and there us a place in hell for anyone who suggests volentry work. It costs me a fortune in petrol, apart from not having a clue where to start doing anything of value CV wise.

[Blu]

The letter is only going to people over £50k on PAYE as I understand it. So you could be higher rate taxpayers but under £50k and be unaffected and therefore not get a letter.

No, higher rate tax payers who earn under £50k on PAYE are receiving it too. On anecdotal evidence from friends and family.

[fromparistoberlin]

what???? I lose on my pension

god I need to learn this, have just bloody cancelled it!!!

[mummytime]

The letter went to my DH, I get the CB. I was more outraged that it failed to mention the pension credit that you get if you get CB. They make it seem that it will just be simpler to not claim CB, so not have to declare it, not mentioning that in that case you could loose out on a pension credit.

[fromparistoberlin]

outraged? jesus you need to get out more!

I am BORED FUCKING SHITLESS of discussing this

I am also bored of pople that say "It wont riase any money"

of course it bloody will

they gain back £1608 from me alone per annum
Lets say we have 2 million families like us, thats an easy £3,216,000,000

[catsmother]

Totally agree with LittlePickleHead. I've raised the issue of the potential problems this might cause in financially abusive relationships (or any sort of abusive relationship for that matter) on threads before yet comparatively few other posters seem concerned - and the f*g government definitely aren't!

LTB is NOT always simple for a whole host of reasons and quite apart from the courage required, it's not uncommon to read about women who, once they've made a decision to ultimately leave, then feel (for their own personal reasons) they have to spend years saving (quite possibly when they're already struggling on a pittance) for an escape fund, and in the meantime, remain trapped with even less money than they had before CB for single higher earners was withdrawn.

Yes .... if they're in receipt of CB only they can cancel it. But honestly - how many women in those situations would have the guts NOT to cancel it if their OH demanded/threatened them (regardless of potential effect on their pensions if SAHM). And just suppose high earner OH remained somehow oblivious of these changes (maybe letter intercepted) - what do you think would happen along the line when he gets a demand for a tax assessment or whatever and is then presented with a tax bill for a years' worth of clawed back CB ? Are people really incapable of imagining the repercussions, and are they so unsympathetic to women effectively stuck in abusive relationships who might be affected ? Abuse isn't confined to lower earners.

So far as I'm aware, in amongst various media articles about these CB changes not one politician or journalist has raised the issue of how it might affect women in abusive relationships. Being cynical I suspect the powers that be haven't addressed the prospect because if they put something in place to protect such women (and their children) it would then depend on them admitting abuse (which many women are ashamed/frightened to do) and you'd also then be inviting a flood of claims from people in perfectly healthy relationships but insisting otherwise so they kept the benefit. I can see it'd be an impossible adminstrative nightmare but by doing nothing abused women fall through the cracks. Those sorts of abusive men won't be sitting down with their partner to discuss how, as a family, they're going to absorb the loss of £xx from the family budget once they get their letter, they're far more likely to shrug and say the woman will just have to "manage" - with the invariable impact on her and the kids as a result. And if women in such situations already have to beg for every little extra, they are now going to be exposed to even more verbal abuse (or worse) when they have to ask for more - be made to feel even more useless/worthless/undeserving/unequal.

But so few people are thinking of families like those. As Mercibucket said up thread the major en masse response seems to be that higher earners can absorb it, should think themselves lucky etc .... the old cliched thing of turning everyone against each other .... with no thought spared for those whose situations aren't black and white. I fully accept that keeping the benefit as it stands would benefit many families who don't "need" it (need being subjective, individual circumstances etc) but it would also protect women and children in high earning but abusive households (to an extent). It seems to me like, well .... lets throw such families to the wolves so to speak because the relatively few affected are nothing compared to the money we'll save overall.

[Startail]

YANBU
It is totally shitty, but I'am a SAHM of school aged DCs.

l am the lowest of the low, I dare to think Motherhood is important,
. That looking after my own DCs in the holidays, not leaving a 12yo on her own in the middle of nowhere is more important than paying a few pounds tax.