To wonder why people put "r"s where they don't belong?

[somebloke123]

A trivial matter in the grand scheme of things of course but:

I first noticed this as a school boy "oop north" when a teacher from down south joined the staff and caused great hilarity by saying "drawrings" instead of "drawings".

It seems to be a southern phenomenon but not at all a type of chavspeak. Some of the worst offenders are media types who speak middle class "received" or "BBC" English.

It amounts to an inability to pronounce two successive vowel sounds without putting an "r" between.

A few examples I have heard in the radio, mainly over the past week or so:

West Brom managed a one-all drawragainst Aston Villa.

Planning the withdrawral from Afghanistan.

Chris Grayling is seeking a change in the lawron reasonable force against burglars.

The police are trying to restore Laura Norder.

And on Radio 4's "Poetry Please" in an otherwise moving reading of Oscar Wilde's "Ballad of Reading Jail":

"But I never sawraman who looked
So wistfully at the day.
I never sawraman who looked
With such a wistful eye."



Grrrrrrrrr!

[MaryZed]

ivy, I remember a mahoosive row between my brother and my (English and rather posh, with very correct aunt as a mother) cousin.

The conversation went like this:

Brother: why do you say somefink?

Cousin: what do you mean I say somefink?

Brother: you should say something.

Cousin: I don't say somefink, I say somefink.

Cue hysterical laughter from me and my three brothers, meltdown from cousin, and aunt (whose house we were in) sending us to our room, where we continued to snigger for a while until our mum came and told us that although we were right we were to shut up.

I tried to remind him of the conversation at his wedding 20 years later, and he still insisted that his way of pronouncing somefink was correct . He never saw the funny side in all those years.

[Moln]

Oh and thanks for the info on clicks!

[waterlego6064]

Apparently, Ningdu Chinese, has 'flapped nasal clicks', according to Wiki. Urrrggghh. That just sounds....rank.

[ivykaty44]

Moln about 25 miles

[CouthyMowWearingOrange]

Thing is, I can understand most UK accents, even written phonetically, and even when written phonetically, could probably take a good guess at what geographical area of the UK that person comes from.

I wonder how it works with phonics in schools, with such different pronunciations up and down the country?

In Southern England, there just aren't any words with the 'soft' 'ch' at the end of loch. The ONLY reason I can pronounce it correctly is because half my family are Scottish, and would have killed me for being a Sassenach disowned me if I couldn't.

It doesn't come naturally to most people with my accent, simply because it is a much 'softer' sound than the harsh glottal stops and bridging 'r' that we are used to forming.

[MaryZed]

It is amazing how everyone does understand each other, though I suppose it is helped by teachers tending to teach in schools where the majority of children have a similar accent to the teacher.

How would a scottish teacher teach phonetically to a Somerset child, for example? It would be a bit messy.

We have that problem with our children learning Irish. There are three very distinct dialects from Ulster, Connaught and Munster. I remember ds having a teacher from Ulster, then one from Munster, then an Ulster one again. The pronunciation of words (even simple verb endings) and the general vocabulary is unrecognisable from one to the other, and she got very confused.

Even now, with the introduction of "standard Gaelic" to schools, the difference between the words and accents used by different teachers is extraordinary. So much so that I cannot understand any Ulster Irish at all.

I'm amazed that English is (more or less) understood over the entire UK.

[AmIthatbad]

Brilliant thread.

[Moln]

Apparently with the Irish it's to do with the seperation of the areas and not much visiting going on and the language evolving seperatly in each area, in some cases an old irish word the word was split and Ulster Irish uses the end of it and Muster the start of it (i can't recall what the word was though - useful of me!

Doesn't really explain why it didn't happen to that extent in England though - however there are regional terms etc that leave people from other areas baffled onhearing them

Ivy I'm fairly sure the K at the end of ing is a Brummie thing(k) but I don't know who far out it reaches

[waterlego6064]

I hear 'somefink' a lot down South, mostly from younger speakers.

I like the sort of lingering 'g' that Liverpudlians have, when they say 'something-uh'

[BreconBeBuggered]

Reading this thread has just reminded me of the first time I heard my Ulster-born future MIL refer to me (ie, her) as whorrre.
She probably still does, a little bit.

[jaggythistle]

if you've ever been to Inverness you can hear how -ing is somehow pronounced -een.

you hear people talking about hangeen out the washeen. or goeen out.

i can't even type how seven and eleven are pronounced up there.

maybe Moray Firth radio is on t'internet...

[AmIthatbad]

I love the Inverness accent. I read somewhere (can't remember where) that they speak the "purest" form of English. Not sure if that's true, although I think it is very soft and easy on the ear.

[jaggythistle]

I'd always heard something like that too ami though i was always a bit about it.

it always sounds bizarre to me if I've not heard it for a while!

[MaryZed]

Euphemia, I have just read your last post four times frantically trying to work out how you could write "water" as "suh-hun".

Then I got it .

[Littlesurprise]

I'm sorry... A Northerner is giving a lecture on correct English? Isn't this the lesser known fifth horseman? Duck and cover, everyone!

[MaryZed]

Not only a Northerner, Little. There are a couple of us who are Irish and someone from Scotland here too.

We have it all sorted . The English are the only people who can't speak English properly.

[Littlesurprise]

As language takes it's twists and turns through time, I believe it is Oxford scholars who have ultimate authority on what English actually is. If you disagree, or choose not to adhere to any part of that (including standard Oxford pronunciation, accent, etc), this unfortunately makes you a linguistic deviant... Or wrong.

[MaryZed]

I had better be a linguistic deviant so, as I'm certainly not wrong

[jaggythistle]

"the English are the only people who can't speak English properly"

that made me a bit!

[LinguisticDeviant]

i can't even type how seven and eleven are pronounced up there

I'm saying it in my head, jaggythistle

[SDeuchars]

As a lowland Scot who went to Aberdeen University, spent 15 years in SW London and has been in Wiltshire for 13 years, I find this conversation fascinating. My own pronunciation is, of course, exemplary.

In London, the f for th drove me mad (I lived near Fort' Neef - spelt Thornton Heath).

My local pet hate is sustificate - a document which is awarded at the end of a course, for example.

[CouthyMowWearingOrange]

Jaggy - my rellies from Skye say seven as "shivun", and eleven as "livun"

[CouthyMowWearingOrange]

I fully admit to not speaking English properly.

Or, as spoken : I fuhllyuhdmit ter no' speakin inglish proplee.

[CouthyMowWearingOrange]

(The comma at the end of no' denotes a glottal stop)