To think this rape poster is giving out the wrong message?

[slatternlymother]

I am in am the services. I was at the sickbay this morning, when I saw some of their new campaign posters on rape and violent crime.

The poster on rape says 'one third of rapes are alcohol related. Don't be a victim' with a photo underneath of a woman wearing a small vest top, lying on the floor, crying.

AIBU to think this gives out the message that if you drink, you're making yourself a victim? Surely a woman should be able to consume alcohol without fear of becoming a rape victim? Surely the message should be; 'Dont rape people'?

It's been on my mind all day. AIBU?

[LesleyPumpshaft]

Yes, sadly you're most likely to get raped by someone you know, not a random stranger that you meet on a night out.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

Piggy - re unlicenced minicabs. One of the most prolific convicted rapists of recent years was a licenced black cab driver.

[squeakytoy]

being drunk lowers your inhibitions and makes you more likely to put yourself into a situation without assessing the risks.. it also makes your reactions slower, and whilst only a rapist will rape, rapists are opportunists who will pick on the weakest targets... make yourself a weaker target, and you are making yourself more vulnerable if you are on your own.

[PiggyBankMum]

True. (re black cab driver rapist).

But NO WAY will I get in a 'gypsy cab', for all sorts of reasons - might not have a driving license let alone insurance, might be drunk...or a rapist. But should I just think 'if he is a rapist it's his fault, not mine, I should have the freedom to be able to jump into an unknown unregulated man's car at night and be safe, so I'm going to take it'?

[PiggyBankMum]

OR - how can we promote self protection, whilst NOT implying that any crime is the victims fault in any way?

[chibi]

i have a modest proposal.

we could arm all women at birth with tasers. they don't have to be set to a lethal frequency

we could hamper men's ability to move freely, never let them out unescorted, and put them under curfew.

then if any man wanders out in defiance, they are liable to be tasered, if they hqve the bad luck to encounter a jumpy and armed woman. it wouldn't be their fault, really, well maybe a bit and it would be regrettable but to be fair they were warned

i think this sounds tremendously fair

[chibi]

oh and sensible men would understand that the restrictions were there for their protection

[joben]

I agree that the onus should of course be on the rapist, but also think women need to limit risks, in the same way there are numerous adverts reminding us to lock our houses to avoid being burgled, avoid alerting robbers to satnavs/laptops in cars, being cautious when using our mobile phones/ipads in public. No-one gets up in arms that the onus of these ads should be on the robber/mugger. There are plenty of shit twatty men who will exploit vulnerable (e.g. drunk women). It's their crime not ours-but we need to be realistic about taking responsibility for our own safety.

[joben]

I bet all of you who are saying women should be able to wear what they like and drink as much as they like still lock their houses/cars at night to avoid getting robbed.

[catgirl1976]

I don't. I forget all the time.

[chibi]

this is where being armed to the teeth and restricting men's lives and freedoms really come in to their own! you would never have to feel bad because you forgot to lock up your vagina or hide it somewhere safe (is thay right? the burglary analogy always confuses me), you could just taser first and ask questions later

of course lots of innocent men will get tasered, but to be fair, what were they expecting? people really need to take personal responsibility for their own safety.

[DowagersHump]

joben - most women are raped by men they know. How is staying sober and on guard the whole time going to protect against that?

Or are you saying that most men you know would probably rape a woman if she were pissed? Because that is actually the logical conclusion of this argument.

I also find the comparison between a woman's body and a piece of property odious.

[NimChimpsky]

1/3 of all rapes happen when drunk? I better take up drinking then. Odds aren't in my favour. Well if we're talking stupid logic...

Alcohol does affect your health, your mental faculties, your balance, your reaction times etc. Of course it does. This has nothing at all to do with rape. You either consent to sex or you don't. You don't decide to be raped through words or action.

And the house/car comparisons really aren't valid for myriad reasons. You leave your car unlocked, you're obviously making it easier for it to be stolen. Nothing you do to your body, nothing you say or wear leads to or causes rape or makes it more likely. Rape is caused by rapists, no more no less.

[squeakytoy]

I dont think any sensible woman would think that by not drinking and taking all precautions that she is bullet proof, but I would say most sensible women also know that being very drunk can possibly increase the risk of any sort of assault, not just rape.

Nothing will stop a rapist from trying to rape. Putting a poster up saying "men! do not rape" will be no deterrent.

[PiggyBankMum]

I completely agree with believing women who report rape.
And that there is no such thing as complete protection, often you will stand no chance at all.

But I have fought off a rapist, when I was a teenager, because I was able, and lucky enough, to make the right move at the right moment. Keeping as fit and active as I can (which I would do anyway) and keeping my wits about me makes me feel more confident and able to go out and about. I don't want to be under a self-imposed curfew of fear, or a male imposed curfew of potential rape. I want to go out into the night feeling confident and independent. The simple precautions I take help. But I am not such a nitwit as to let that become false security, nor to think that any woman who is attacked is in any way responsible.

[squeakytoy]

And yes we all know that the majority of rapes are committed by a person known to the victim. However there are still rapes taking place by strangers.

Lets say there is a man lurking down an alleyway intent on raping the first lone female who walks down it. It wouldnt matter if she was pissed out of her face, or stone cold sober, wearing uggs or stripper heels, she could be his intended victim. However if no woman was to walk down that dark alley, then he has no victim to attack.

Dont take risks is the message. I really cannot understand why some people do not see this at all.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

More than a third of rapes happen by ex-partner, partner or spouse. Don't be a victim, never get married. I've been married twice, I should start drinking to lower my chances. I am NOT making light of rape but trying to highlight how bloody stupid this is.

[DowagersHump]

squeaky - how many rapes take place down dark allies? A tiny number.

It's like advice to make sure you remember your snow tyres in wintery weather when you live in Mauritius. Utterly meaningless.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

It's not 'utterly meaningless', that's the sad bit.

The more people bang on about how drunk/badly dressed/young/blonde/sociable/whatever women need to take precautions to prevent rape, the more it becomes lodged in people's minds that it's their fault.

We may not intend that effect, but it is pretty obvious it's there, so why not tackle it?

[squeakytoy]

"squeaky - how many rapes take place down dark allies? A tiny number."

"It's like advice to make sure you remember your snow tyres in wintery weather when you live in Mauritius. Utterly meaningless"

bullshit. to those women who have been raped by strangers, do you have any idea how insulting that is?? you are basically saying, "oh well, its only a minority of women who get raped by strangers, so lets not worry about them"..

It is probable that those figures are untrue anyway as many rapes go unreported, simply because women are afraid that they will not be believed, or in the case of stranger rape, because they are unable to identify their attacker and also do not want to be blamed for taking risks.. so they say nothing, and the stranger is free to carry on raping..

[MrsTerryPratchett]

A vast quantity of women raped by their partners don't report either. There was a study where the researchers asked questions about sex and rape to married women. It was something like 1% thought they had been raped by their H and the researchers used objective, legal definitions of rape and thought that 12% had not exact figures.

No one is saying that women who are raped by strangers in alleys aren't important. What we are saying is that telling women that not drinking will protect them against being raped is insulting, stupid and useless.

Think of the numbers... Most women are raped by people they know, somewhere they know, most cases drink isn't an issue. Even in the small proportion where it is a stranger, somewhere after the pubs close, she has been drinking, you still have to assume that in most of these cases, the rapist would have raped her drunk or sober. Or, would have raped another woman who was drunk. The rapes still happen. Rape prevention should be about exactly that, how can we stop rapes?

[50smellsofshite]

I don't know how many reported rapes are stranger/date rape/assaults but I do know that the majority of my female friends have been sexually assaulted to some degree whilst they have been drinking/been very drunk.

I myself have had a drink spiked, and had rape attempted but because I was wearing a tampon the attacker abandoned the attack and kicked me half-naked in to the street. I fully believe I was targeted because I was a girl who was (at the time) always a bit drunk, would chat to any bloke and really was less able to make sensible decisions. If you could have viewed CCTV from that night I bet it would have been very revealing as to WHY some men target SOME women with crimes like this. I had a big arrow over my head saying "she'll be easier to rape than some of the other women in here".

At the same time I don't take ANY personal responsibility for the attack. He was a nasty bastard and sadly got away with what he did to me.
But I could have done more to reduce the risk of it being ME he targeted.

I think alcohol is important because it reduces your ability to react sensibly to situations. It gives you a false sense of security and you take extra risks.

I don't agree that dress is relevant in any way. I was wearing a short skirt that night but feel this is utterly irrelevant.

[squeakytoy]

It is not stupid or useless or insulting to say that being drunk will not harm you or raise your risk factor though.

Plenty of women find themselves in awkward situations when they let their guard down, and luckily most of those women are not with rapists, but still end up wishing the next morning that they hadnt had that one night stand, and in the cold light of day wonder why on earth they thought going back to that blokes house was a good idea.

It isnt just rape, not using protection and getting sexually transmitted diseases, being mugged, falling over and injuring yourself.. there are all sorts of risks associated with getting blind drunk.. risks that you wouldnt take if you were more in control.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

But it won't raise your risk factor of being raped significantly. Getting married will, going on dates will, being abused in the past will, being from certain racial groups will, being 16-19 years old will, being a woman will. Being drunk (or drinking at all, the poster doesn't specify) might make a difference to a tiny number of women who are targeted by a certain type of rapist. If that woman doesn't drink, he will find one who does. If all women don't drink, do you really think he will stop raping? Of course not.

This poster won't prevent any rapes. Even by your logic it will only prevent the rape of that person, not the next person along. I've worked with a number of convicted rapists and they will carry on raping until they are stopped. My drinking one less cocktail won't stop one rapist.