To think this rape poster is giving out the wrong message?

[slatternlymother]

I am in am the services. I was at the sickbay this morning, when I saw some of their new campaign posters on rape and violent crime.

The poster on rape says 'one third of rapes are alcohol related. Don't be a victim' with a photo underneath of a woman wearing a small vest top, lying on the floor, crying.

AIBU to think this gives out the message that if you drink, you're making yourself a victim? Surely a woman should be able to consume alcohol without fear of becoming a rape victim? Surely the message should be; 'Dont rape people'?

It's been on my mind all day. AIBU?

[slatternlymother]

mrsterrypratchett that's it; it doesn't say whether the alcohol is the victim's or the rapist's; but it suggests it is the victim's.

It seems muddled somehow, but I just asked DH what he thought and he said he thought it was awful too.

[slatternlymother]

lesley yes; you put it far better than I did!

[catgirl1976]

It's very muddled. Very badly written.

Maybe it should say "1/3 of rapes are alcohol related. Don't be a rapist".

But even then the mentioning the alcohol is wrong as you are either less likely to get raped if you are drunk or less likely to rape someone if you are drunk by this rationale.

It's wrong on pretty much every level

[Viviennemary]

I think the poster is trying to say that alcohol may make you do things that you regret later. Or behave in a certain way you may not have behaved when sober. I can't see anything wrong with that. It is simply a fact that alcohol does have this affect.

[LesleyPumpshaft]

There was a drunk and stupid tv campaign a while ago - with that guy climbing a building to get a girls balloon as they drink made him feel like a super hero

I let someone push me down a hill in a shopping trolley once, does that count?

slatternlymother The message is repugnant imo. All campaigns need to be aimed at men saying that no definitely means no.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I hate to break it to these poster designer but in countries where women wear burqas and never drink, rape still happens. Because there are still rapists there. I think I am right in this stat, correct me if not, over half of DV incidents are alcohol related. I can't imagine a poster with a woman with a beaten face and 'over half of domestic violence incidents are alcohol related. Don't be a victim'.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I think the poster is trying to say that alcohol may make you do things that you regret later. Like get raped?

Or behave in a certain way you may not have behaved when sober. Like be raped?

I can't see anything wrong with that. Except when a woman sees this poster who was raped when she had been drinking and blames herself.

It is simply a fact that alcohol does have this affect. It doesn't. Meeting a rapist does.

I'm not trying to pick on you Vivienne but these rape myths are very damaging.

[50smellsofshite]

Of course rapists are responsible for rapes but I want my friends, my family, my daughters and myself to know how to reduce the risk of being raped.

No-one will ever persuade me that the risk of being raped is the same if you drink sensibly versus being so drunk you are lying in the gutter with your skirt up over your knickers.

Electrical equipment shouldnt explode/start fires. When you go on holiday you switch off appliances at the wall to reduce the risk of a fire. You don't say "I'm not turning things off as that is changing my behaviour - it is the manufacturers responsibility 100%". I don't want my bloody house to burn down.

It's not that black and white.

[NormaStanleyFletcher]

But 50, if one third of rapes involve a drunk woman, it is clear that the other two thirds of rapists are after a sober woman, so you would be better off staying drunk .

I think that poster is awful and victim blaming.

[DowagersHump]

If 2/3 of rapes are not alcohol-related, surely that's saying that if you're pissed, you're less likely to be raped?

Or is it the rapist's level of alcohol we're supposed to be worried about?

These kind of rape campaigns do 2 things:

1. They lure women into false senses of security. That if they don't drink, wear sensible clothing, are always on their guard, never do anything 'silly', they won't be raped. And that's completely bollocks. It's as much use as not stepping on the cracks in the pavements to avoid bears.
   

If you don't want to meet bears, avoid places with bears. If you don't want to be raped, avoid men. Oh that's right, that's not really possible is it? So not remotely helpful as 'advice'.

1. They compound the guilt that rape victims feel because of the all-pervasive message that if you're raped, it must somehow be your fault. Which is also related to 1. above.

[catgirl1976]

The poster manages to both encourage drunkeness as a safety measure and blame women for rape.

That's some going...........

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Poster says, alcohol related. Not so drunk you are in a gutter with your knickers showing. I would educate my daughter not to drink to excess because... it's unhealthy, it's stupid and expensive, it is a factor in a lot of pedestrian accidents (more liking to be killed drink walking than drink driving per mile), because it is dangerous (just look at A and E). I will not give her the impression that it will protect her from rape to stay sober, because it won't.

[SoleSource]

Being drunk can give a person a sense of heightened confidence. For examoke, walking through a park as a short cut, the person might never do this sober.

[SoleSource]

Nobody deserves to be raped.

[DowagersHump]

Some of you are promulgating Rape Myths which is something that MN have tried very hard to bust.

I'm sad that you still buy into them.

[Teapot13]

How do you feel about signs in Central London that say "Keep hold of your valuables -- pickpockets operate in this area" ?

The thefts are still caused by the pickpockets, but by reminding people to be vigilant we can avoid some of the incidents. I'm having a hard time distinguishing the two situations.

[Viviennemary]

Of course everybody should be safe. But we have to deal with the world as it is now. I tried to give my views before on this and was shouted down. So there's just no point. I don't think it's the victim's fault.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

I think we have grown past stranger danger for kids. Because we know that they are more likely to be abused by someone they know. So, we try to instill values about appropriate touching, body awareness, not keeping secrets. We hope this will help a small amount. It will also help them feel that their body belongs to them which is a great value.

Why can't we see the same with women and rape? Teach everyone consent is consent and nothing else is, both boys and girls. That if there is not consent it is rape. Teach everyone that a person in a relationship still has all their own rights and the partner owns none of them. Teach men to respect women and their right to drink, dress how they like, make decisions about their own bodies.

This poster, however well meant, could give a man the impression that a drunk woman is asking for it. Since we know this attitude is rife, why encourage it. Ched has been taught, maybe we need to start on the other rapists.

[Viviennemary]

I wasn't going to post again. But if anybody thinks that putting up a load of posters aimed at men saying 'no means no' will put off a determined rapist. I'm afraid I don't think it will.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Neither will sober, nicely dressed women, Vivienne.

[MrsTerryPratchett]

Teapot people generally don't get pick-pocketed in their own homes, by their partners, friends, dates, BFs, family members. That is why it is appropriate to tell people if they are in an area where it happens. Also, people who have been a victim of that crime tend not to get PTSD, anxiety, depression, blame themselves, take years to recover, change their relationships and all the other effects of rape. So, I don't think victim blaming is an issue there.

[Tuttutitlookslikerain]

I agree with Worra.

[PiggyBankMum]

How do you feel about the TV ads warning women not to take unlicensed mini-cabs?

I like to be streetwise. I am out alone late at night a lot in a gritty part of London. Mugging is more likely (statistically)than rape. I always wear shoes I could run in, I always walk close to the gutter edge of the pavement, sometimes even in the road if it is very deserted, I carry my keys in my hand, I never ever walk home alone insensible though drink or anything else.

I am 100% sure that rape is never a woman's fault, and only a rapists fault. My precaustions don't dilute the blame or the responsibility of a would be perpertrator. But if a perpertrator is out there I want to increase my chances of not being a victim while the main message is getting through.

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

'a message on drinking responsibly should not be mixed up with a rape message - 2 separate issues'

This.