to not want school to teach my kids how to speak in the way the teachers wants?

[bellabreeze]

Having irish accents the teacher of some of my kids has told me they would do little speech classes so they speak different.. its not the accent but its things like saying 'ting' not 'thing' and dat not that and stuff like that really.. I think.. I don't think it is important enough to waste time doing? But maybe I am wrong?

[halcyondays]

If it was a long "a" sound, then wouldn't it be spelt "baath" When some people say it,it does sound as if there is an "r" sound in it. Either way, not everyone pronounces "bath" the same way. So why it that acceptable, but other variations are considered to be incorrect?

[garlicbutty]

Heh, "baath" is what they say round here and I suspect Katisha would say they're wrong

[CrunchyFrog]

DS1 has auditory processing disorder. Loads of his sounds are disordered (c, g, l, p, r, s, th, bl, ch etc etc etc, it's a long list.) Top of the class for literacy though, in a purely phonics based education system. It hssn't harmed him in that way at all.

Even with ongoing SALT, which has been happening for 5 years, he's never going to sound "normal."

If a child with SN can manage GPC with a disordered sound system, I would imagine that Irish children surrounded by people using English accents will find it easy enough to pick up.

[Katisha]

I've never heard it pronounced baaRth. It's a long "a" without an additional "r" sound.
Baath.

[Katisha]

And it's pointless, as far as the English language is concerned, to insist that everything is pronounced as it is spelled!

[Miltonia]

I was sent to elocution lessons as a child so that I didn't speak with the local accent. My parents are from the East End and knew that their accents had not helped them.

They gave me a choice about how to speak and tried their best for me, and for that I thank them.

I think this teacher sounds well-meaning an to throw this opportunity back in her face would be ill-advised.

Accents are like dress- people do make assumptions. Giving young people the choice of how to present themselves is not going to do them any harm and may well help them considerably.

[DilysPrice]

I'm a strong believer in all English-speaking children being taught to be bilingual in their "native" dialect and Standard English IRO grammar and vocabulary but not accent (unless it is so strong that the rest of the country really does need subtitles).

However in practice some accents are more equal than others and a parent or teacher who wouldn't dream of "correcting" a Yorkshire or Scottish accent will come down like a ton of bricks on "one, two, free". A Scottish mate of mine was incandescent when her child came home from his Sarf London primary asking for a glass of "miwk".

So I suspect that the OP's child's teacher has responded in a way that is very questionable because "dat" and "ting" are common low status London pronunciations, not because they're Irish. Doesn't make it right of course.

[OliviaPeaceAndLoveMumsnet]

I am meant to be taking this nickname off as UN Peace day was weeks ago but peace and love all.
Thanks

[GlassofRose]

Saying Dis and Dat is not caused by an accent it's just mispronunciation of a word. There are various mispronunciations that happen to occur in various regions. Lot's of us Londoners say Ouse and Orse instead of House and Horse... it's not caused by an accent, it's just happens to be the habit of the region.

Teachers are teaching children to pronounce words properly and speak FORMAL English so that they can better themselves with decent jobs. People are judged on the way they talk whether we like it or not. If you go to a job interview and the person you're up against can actually convey themselves in formal English (accent or no accent) then they'll get the job if you can only speak the language the way you do in a social settings.

[GoSakuramachi]

Ireland is not a region of the UK and has its own version of the language. Anyone here who doesn't understand the concept of Hiberno-English shouldn't really be commenting on this. The lack of knowledge is quite astounding.

[MadBusLady]

It is an accent. That is exactly what dropping an aitch is. "Habit of the region" = accent.

[BonaDea]

Calindana - for a start, I'm not English, so don't tar me with THAT particular brush, please

But what I'm talking about is not being English, it is speaking the English language and sorry, but a "th" does not make a sound like a "d".

Accents are different Irish, Scottish, Welsh and English people all pronounce words differently, but there are still common fundamentals and rules of the language. You are of course entitled to say words differently if you choose, but it's a bit of a stretch to say that it is correct or down to accent.

[BonaDea]

And to the OP: unfortunately, no AIBU thread was every lighthearted. Mumsnetters are so busy being lovely and supportive elsewhere on the forum that we reserve getting the claws out here (as I have learned to my peril! )

[squoosh]

Sorry, but in some accents a 'th' does sound like a 'd'.

[bellabreeze]

Wow i just logged in to see loads of new posts on this. thanks everyone and after speaking to a couple of people today who told me to 'SUE THEM!!!! TAKE THIS ALL THE WAY TO THE TOP!!!!' well I really do not think that is needed at all, I spoke to the teacher again on the phone and pretty much copied what a lot of people had posted on this thread which made her understand more, sometimes I am bad at thinking up things to say on the phone so it really helped me. yes we are travellers but all the kids apart from my eldest have lived in England their whole lives pretty much. I have decided to say no to the teachers offer but i am also not offended now that i think she understands my point about it not being incorrect (in my eyes at least). also, about the traveller accent, just the same as there are different irish accents, there are different irish traveller accents, I think they speak clearly and the teacher hasnt commented on not being able to understand them so that's good

[GlassofRose]

Accent is the way your voice sounds... not how you mispronounce words

[GlassofRose]

Sorry OP, but Dis and Dat is incorrect in a formal situation.

[squoosh]

Accents affect the way in which you pronounce words.

[bellabreeze]

i dont think theyre incorrect, it isnt slang its the way words sound in a lot of irish accents

[LRDtheFeministDragon]

Oh, lovely, glad you managed to talk it through with her. It sounds as if you put your point across, and hopefully she understands. Best of luck!

glass - erm, accent is to do with pronunciation. How could your voice 'sound' different if you didnt pronounce words differently from other people?!

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accent_(linguistics)

'Accents typically differ in quality of voice, pronunciation of vowels and consonants, stress, and prosody. Although grammar, semantics, vocabulary, and other language characteristics often vary concurrently with accent, the word 'accent' refers specifically to the differences in pronunciation, whereas the word 'dialect' encompasses the broader set of linguistic differences. Often 'accent' is a subset of 'dialect'.'

The bits about 'pronunciation of vowels and consonants' ... that's the 'them'/'dem' or 'barth/bath' bits.

[CailinDana]

BonaDea, if an entire region of a country pronounces a word a certain way, it's not a mispronunciation, it's a feature of the accent. It's not as if Irish people think "I know the correct way to pronounce "th" but I'll just pronounce it "d" instead." Just out of interest, when an English person says "cah" and a Scottish person says "carr" who is incorrect?

Glass an accent is related to how you pronounce words. How you sound is called intonation and prosody and it is unique to individuals - a whole group of people will never sound the same, even if they all pronounce words the same way. Your voice is almost as unique as your fingerprint.

[Bonsoir]

In the British Isles there are regional accents and there are social class accents. They are not the same thing.

[Hullygully]

I have only read the op and were I to be asked to predict the newspaper most likely to feature such a tale I owuld say either the DM or the LaLaLand Times.

[habbibu]

Say that and then dat, and feel where your tongue is in your mouth at the initial sound. It's a very similar kind of articulation, one where the tongue touches the teeth, and one the alveolar ridge behind the teeth. It's quite interesting to see just how similar it
feels.

A similar variation for me is the way DH pronounces December and greasy with voiced consonants - a similar degree of difference, but one that isn't a shibboleth like dis and dat.

[Hullygully]

I dont think so habb.

For that the tongure scrapes on the top teeth and dat it bounces off the top of the mouth.

Anyway

COME ON

Some teacher said "your kids speak funny so they can have special lessons?