To feel my daughter should be able to pray at school

[Telcontar]

My daughter aged 14 is Christian like me, though we are both reasonably liberal. She/a sibling has always prayed aloud before meals at home, and does so silently at school too. Recently we received a complait from her tutor though, saying she was not allowed to pray in the hall. I called a couple of my daughter's friends and they say they have no problem with it and that she never says anything, she is just quiet with her eyes shut for a minute. The tutor complained after she sat with my daughter and friends for lunch. Is it unreasonable to think this is unfair/discrimination? Should she have to stop?

[purplemurple]

Sounds daft IMO, its not as if she is stood on a table evangelizing. She isn't forcing her views on anyone, what harm is she doing.

[Halbanoo]

American schools have "tutors"?

That's news to me (and I'm American)

[manicinsomniac]

I was under the impression that, although a secular country, America is hugey Christian. I think there will be dozens of Christian peers your daughter could talk to in school and ask about how they balance their beliefs with school policies.

[allhailtheaubergine]

She must be being pretty obvious about it if the tutor felt he had to take action. Perhaps advise her to be a little less ostentatious about praying?

[CheerfulYank]

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

It's in the damn First Amendment! She can close her eyes if she wants to.

[FairPhyllis]

I am British, living in the US. As I understand it, schools cannot sponsor or guide any form of religious activity, or have teachers lead prayers etc. But under the constitution your daughter also has the right to the free exercise of religion, so as long as it is not being disruptive to school activities in any way she should be able to pray in school. Private student prayer in this context, uncoerced by school authorities, is not illegal. Separation of church and state does not mean that you can't pray on public property - how could you police that anyway - it just means that the state cannot sponsor any form of religious expression. One of the schools in the town where I live just had to rename its yoga class "stretching exercises" because yoga in its original form is a religious practice.

I would ask the tutor to point you to the Supreme Court ruling that says students cannot pray privately, voluntarily and non-disruptively - because there isn't one ...

[PigletJohn]

"anyone caught praying before exams would be treated as cheating"

Trying to get God on their side eh?

[hocuspontas]

Maybe the tutor noticed because he was talking to her and she was ignoring him because she was praying. I think you should find out what exactly the tutor didn't like.

[DrSeuss]

Ask them if they ever shut their eyes or incline their head slightly while thinking! That is all the poor girl has done! Reassure her that if she prays silently, in her head, God is perfectly happy with that! I rarely pray any other way, personally.

[DeWe]

When I was growing up in UK, one of the local comprehensive headmasters announcing in assembly both that he didn't believe in God and that anyone caught praying before exams would be treated as cheating, including informing the exam boards at GCSE.

Everyone was a bit as surely if he didn't believe, then praying would make no difference.

[BabyDubsEverywhere]

I suddenly want to move to America :)

Back to OP, it does seem quite strange that a tutor could even pick up on it as she was just sat silent with her eyes shut! Sure thems the rules and all that, but how would anyone know what she was doing? I dont know how the prayer bit works, but could she pray in the morning before breakfast for all the meals she will recieve that day? So sorry if that is totally not on I mean no offence.

[lesley33]

nailak - I think its a balancing act tbh. It is wrong to assume that things will be as they would be in the country you have come from. And you need to find your way with the things that might happen but others might agree should be challenged and the things that are not going to be changed.

If you don't do this you could quickly find yourself alienated from the local population.

[troisgarcons]

The tutor sent us a brief letter about no religious expression in school and that she had to stop


I'd be taking that to the governors, pronto.

[lesley33]

I think it would be fine to contact the tutor and say something like, you know I'm English so sorry I don't understand all the rules here yet. Is it fine for my daughter to pray silently if she just closes her eyes or is that not allowed? Basically clarify what is and isn't acceptable.

I can understand your bewilderment at rules that don't seem to make sense. Where I emigrated to - Switzerland - the pre school would open the doors at the end of the session and usher all the children out - 4/5 year olds. Some made there own way home and some were collected. But if you weren't there on time then tough!

[nailak]

mali, when a person joins a community, do they not have the right for their opinion to be heard and considered in that community?

[NotJustKangaskhan]

American ex-pat here - the tutor is being unreasonable from my perspective.

Silent prayer is not illegal at state schools in the US, and it is not illegal for your daughter to pray silently before lunch. It is illegal for a teacher to direct for prayer before a meal (though some schools do have quiet moments in the morning or at other times, but it is illegal for it to be specified as a time for prayer) but a student doing it quite themselves or in a quiet group. I recall at my middle school and high school some students taking Bibles into the lunch room and reading them there during lunch.

[givemushypeasachance]

I was under the impression that you can't have state-sponsored religion in US schools; so the school can't organise a prayer meeting or have a prayer said over the PA system, but what individual students do privately to themselves is up to them.

A famous case was about a school with "a policy permitting student-led, student-initiated prayer at high school football games" and that was ruled unconstitutional, but that was a public event with students broadcasting their prayers - quite different from basically thinking quietly to yourself.

[PhilipJFry]

I think it's really off that she isn't even allowed to pray silently for a minute. That's really sad.

[lightroom]

It's a public school with explicit rules about religious expression, so I don't think you have any grounds for complaint. At the same time, no one can stop your daughter from praying silently and unostentatiously to herself. The school has a right to complain if she makes a show of it. (I'm not saying that she is doing that, just that I can imagine bowing your head and closing your eyes and drawing attention to yourself would break the rule about 'religious expression'). I think I'd want to have a full discussion with the tutor to clarify the situation so that you and your dd can be clear about what 'no religious expression' means. But like Squeakytoy, I am wondering if there is more to this.

[malinois]

Telcontar - on what grounds do you think you could leave a message for the tutor? You have immigrated to a country where prayer, even silent prayer, is illegal in public schools. What exactly would be up for discussion?

If your daughter wants to pray in public areas of the school, such as the cafeteria, she needs to learn how to do this without making it obvious to teachers. This is what her observant US peers will be doing.

You are the immigrant, and it's up to you to conform to social norms and laws in the country you have immigrated to.

[Feminine]

That is weird.

I have lived in the US for 6 years...praying is seen as a positive/or just ignored. It is a regular state school.

What state are you in? :)

[squeakytoy]

How did the teacher know that she was praying? If someone had their eyes closed for a a few seconds, I cant see how anyone would a)notice and b)know that it was a prayer..

I feel there is more to this.

I would be very hesitant about leaving any messages for the tutor without finding out the full story first.