to think that "Never give up" is a crappy message to teach children

[BertieBotts]

and "When to give up" would be better?

[Proon]

Emsmaman, I love your mum

[activate]

fine some people obviously believe that children are capable of understanding when to give up

IME they're not - it is up to parents to decide when to encourage children to stop doing / trying / practicing something not up to children to decide 'I'm giving up'

[activate]

"its worth doing badly" is a great attitude - because at least they're "doing" and "not giving up"

[spiderpig8]

A1980 - so do you think you could NEVER have masde it as a doctor if that was what you really really wanted.i have a friend whose youngest DC has started university and she has just started med school !

[Laquitar]

Many of 'follow your dream' - 'never give up'- people rely on someone else, parents or partner. There have been threads here when OP works her arse to support the family and dh insist to continue a failing bussiness or an art project because 'he has to follow his dreams/doesn't give up'. Unless there is a real talent it can be a very selfish thing and a bit of la-la-land.

[BertieBotts]

Also it would be a pain if your children decided to adopt the "never give up" idea when you are trying to get them to go to bed

[chickensaregreen]

My mum always used to say, "if at first you don't succeed, stop and do something you're good at!"

[plupervert]

I was thinking about that, too, BertieBotts! Tantrummers must not be allowed to win, of course!

I still think human nature in most cases will enforce a "stop" in many cases. However, for the children in the dance classes, and the law firms faced with the unqualified (and unqualifiable) paralegal, that "stop" can be enforced from above.

Also, I do believe that children and adults can cope with increasingly sophisticated ideas in life, so learning when and how to give up is a lesson which doesn't necessarily undermine "don't give up". Also, I'd like to repeat what I said about achievable goals. In childhood, parents and teachers should be setting achievable goals, so children have a taste of achievement.

Scientific method might be a particularly good way of learning to defer success, try different things without feeling that one failure is total failure. It's a real shame, therefore, that science teaching in schools has fallen off so greatly...

[BertieBotts]

I don't necessarily think tantrums = never allowed to win. If they're willing to back down a bit and work out a compromise that's something I encourage.

[plupervert]

Bertie, I ought to mention that mine's only 3.6, so still at the stage at which compromise wouldn't be understood as anything other than capitulation!

[pointydog]

Depends on the context obviously.

I can't tie my shoelaces - never give up.

I want to be a surgeon - you don't have the grades so choose a realistic job and never give up in your aim to bag a satisfying career.

[BertieBotts]

Oh, well they're all different. DS seems to get it and he's just turned 3. OTOH though he's terrified of a worrying number of things and I can't get him to potty train for love nor chocolate buttons!

[activate]

3

is that your eldest?

[BertieBotts]

Yes, why, do they suddenly turn around at 6 and say "Mummy, every time you let me have one more go on the slide when I was 3, I was actually manipulating you. Sucker!"

[spiderpig8]

So if they can't do maths do we just let them give up?? Or are we just talking about showbiz aspirations?

[activate]

because 'never give up' is not a message for a toddler / pre-schooler but is a message for a 7, 10 or 17 year old of course

parenting goes beyond young children

[verlainechasedrimbauds]

I do think "never give up" can lead to misery sometimes. Determination and perseverance are likely to be very useful traits in all walks of life, but an ability to recognise when a change of tack is likely to lead to more satisfaction/fulfilment/comfort/security (or even excitement/fun) is just as important.

It isn't true that determination will get you to where you want to go because in some walks of life it isn't what you do that makes a difference, it's what other people do. We do tend to hear about those who "make it" because they've persevered. We will tend not to hear about those who don't "make it" despite the fact that they persevere until they keel over.

[Ghoulwithadragontattoo]

I think children give up far too easily and should be encouraged always to try their hardest and not to give up.

I think more subtle judgments like picking battles should only addressed as they approach adulthood.

I think too many people give up far too easily.

[ScarlettIsWalking]

W. C . Fields; If at first you don't succeed, try, try and try again. Then give up. There's no use being a damned fool about it.