to think that "Never give up" is a crappy message to teach children

[BertieBotts]

and "When to give up" would be better?

[wordfactory]

Was it Einstein who said The definition of stupidity is doing the same thing repeatedly and expectinga different result.

We must teach our children that persistence is key. But that there are more than one way to skin a cat.

[duvetdayplease]

I thought it was the definition of madness is to do the same thing again and expect a different result? Anyway, whichever is the correct one, I agree, suggesting we never give up but repeatedly try and try and try again sounds a bit stupid.

Trying hard, working out how to get what we need to do done, sticking at things til we work it out, I'm all for.

[A1980]

A better way of teaching children is knowing when to quit and try something else. It's a life skill that they will need to use in the future

It reminds me of an old colleauge of mine. She was pushing 32 when she started working with us but had finsihed law school 7 years earlier. Every firm she had ever worked for had not given her a training contract (to qualify as a solicitor) and when she joined our firm, sure enough she tried to get a tc with us. It soon became apparent why she had not been given a tc by any firm. It became apparent she had not been honest about her qualifications when she joined us. She came across well in interview for her paralegal job but as it turned out she was all mouth and I seriously doubted her competency when I saw her work. She was rejected twice for training contract at my firm and then she finally gave up and left our firm (forcibly becasue of her behaviour). she got a job at another firm and pulled the same stunt, not being honest about her qualifications, she lasted only 2 months there as they sacked her when they found out she hadn't been honest, whereas we didn't. She's now at another firm I belevie trying to get a contract. She will be 36 next year and will be more than a decade out of law school. I want to tell her to give the fuck up. but there you go.........

[Putrifyno]

I think it is good to encourage some level of perseverence and that it can take effort to get what you want. I took dd to a taster class for a Martial Art this morning. She has said for ages and ages that she didn't want to do dancing this year, but karate. It took some time to find a suitable class.

So I sat and watched. It was very physical and energetic and she was really trying hard to keep up and do the moves. But it looked fun! Afterwards, she cried and sad she hated it, as she couldn't do what the others could do.

I pointed out that the others could have been doing it for months, if not years, and that she couldn't expect to turn up the first day and be expert, though I was proud of her for doing the whole class and keeping up.

So, sadly she doesn't want to continue - and I don't feel I should MAKE her. But I think she got the idea from watching Kung Fu Panda and honestly didn't realise the amount of effort and discipline that is required for these things - ironically a big theme of the films...

[troisgarcons]

We were taught the story of Robert the Bruce and the Spider .... never ever give up.


No wonder this country is shot to shit

[A1980]

Winners never quit and quitters never win.

Bull shit!

I wanted to be a doctor when I was at school. I fucked up my sciences. I got C grades. I quit.

I decided to be a lawyer instead. I'm now a solicitor at a top London firm. It's a win for me. I love my work.

Had I decided to pursue medicine I would have gotten nowhere. Sometimes when you give up, you find something you like better.

[CogitoErgoSometimes]

YABU... There's a lot you can do before you give up. Change tack, revise ambitions, try again, rethink the concept. Giving up is too final.

[spiderpig8]

plenty of bad singers are pop stars.Look at jeward!

[cookcleanerchaufferetc]

I agree with roisin. Most kids don't know what perseverance, resilience, motivation and communication are.

Try your best is good.

[lenak]

A1980 - you didn't quit though did you? You still worked hard, went to uni etc. You just re-evaluated your ambition to fit your skill set.

If you'd quit, you wouldn't have gone to uni and wouldn't be working successfully in a professional career.

There is a big difference between quitting / giving up and re-focussing time and energy on something different or more realistic.

[exoticfruits]

Sounds a sensible thing say-my mother has it on her wall.
It sums it up really. Nothing more to be said.

[exoticfruits]

I missed a whole page! I thought that I was relying to hiddenhome who said

''Grant me the serenity
to accept the things I cannot change,
courage to change the things I can
and the wisdom to know the difference.'

[Proon]

I think a good lesson is "Go after what you really want to do. It will be hard so prepare yourself."

Certainly don't spend a lot of time on things you're ambivalent about.

[WoodBetweenTheWorlds]

Interesting thread. I agree that perseverance is fantastic, but we need to teach our kids to recognise when things aren't working and to re-evaluate goals and strategies etc. Sadly, I have a member of staff at work who clearly never learnt that lesson and she is making her life hell by clinging doggedly to a role that she will never be able to perform to the required standard.

However, I disagree with Rosemary about the dancing. My dd is a natural dancer but there are some very uncoordinated children in her class, and indeed in the older classes. I think these children and their parents know full well that they are never going to make a career out of dancing, but you know what? They really enjoy it and do it for the love of it. And I think that is fantastic!

[PrimaBallerina]

YANBU, couldn't agree more. The currently popular wisdom that you can do anything if you want it enough is rubbish - perfectly illustrated by the posters who talk about becoming pop stars, footballers, doctors etc.

It is utterly pointless to try and try to be a singer if you can't sing for example. With lessons and non stop practise you may become an average singer but nothing more. But if you're a naturally talented dancer or whatever and you put the same effort in you could reach the top of your game.

I fully intend to encourage DS in anything he wishes to pursue but will definitely teach him to work to his strengths.

[Proon]

But then you see Geri Halliwell, and suddenly it does seem possible.

[activate]

I think Never Give Up is exactly what you teach a child - When to give up is a lesson you teach adults

[PrimaBallerina]

I thought about that as soon as I pressed 'send'!

[activate]

there is a risk that you only encourage children to do what they're good at whereas if you teach them to try and try and try and practice and practice and work hard and work hard then they can master any skill even if they have no inate talent

[Emsmaman]

My mum always said if something's worth doing it's worth doing badly. I find this much more motivational, she encouraged me to try lots of things out when I was young and I never felt bad about stopping doing something if I wasn't enjoying/succeeding in it. Equally if I enjoyed doing something but sucked at it, it didn't matter, just carried on my merry way!

[mmmerangue]

Never Give Up is what the 'awful outtakes' bit of The X Factor was built on. It's filled with good intentions but in reality... Not so useful.

"Always Try your Best" might be more acceptable... Try, Try and Try again then cut your losses and move on.