To not be sure who is wrong in the Golly dispute?

[Mitmoo]

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2034203/Grandmother-faces-court-placing-Golliwog-window-dispute-neighbour-black-wife.html

OK it's a DM to flame me but never the less..........

A grandmother has a longrunning dispute over boundary issues, which I know from personal experience can be extremely distressing, even though in my case it was just a part of my small back garden not serious land as in this case.

The grandmother IMO was probably being racist in putting the golly in her window, but it is in her house and no one is being forced to look at it. She says it is a grandchild's toy and was put there only while tidying up. Other neighbour was so offended they photographed it!

But AIBU in thinking the other couple were being ridiculous to go to the police about it and now the original woman (probably in the wrong, don't buy the grandchilds toy story) could be facing two years in jail?

Perhaps there is an argument for granny being a nut in this day and age to buy a golly for a child, while admittedly loved the badges from the jamjars in the 70's.

Ultimately it is a doll, in her house, on her windowsill, she's wrong, she's probably racist but how can this be a good use of our courts, our legal system, this is a neighbour dispute.

How can they prove what was in her mind when she placed the golly in the window sill? AIBU in thinking these families are as bad as each other and are blowing this up out of all proportion, while accepting boundary disputes do get under your skin big time.

It seems to me involving the police was vindictive and a court case over this is unnecessary?

It's the sort of behaviour if I saw it I would say "silly cow" or similar and move on.

Two wrongs and all that. Not defending racist behaviour for a second just seems to me this has been blown out of proportion in making this a court case with possible jail time for having a golly on your windowsill.

Particularly as I am not sure they can prove her intent when putting it there.
We are supposed to be in dire financial straights as a country, how much is this case costing?

OR AIBU?

[Malcontentinthemiddle]

'nothing is racist if you don't mean it to be', sorry!

[FreudianSlipper]

nokissymum so if the term wog or paki is used in a friendly way the person it is being used toward has no reason to feel offended?

[KeepTheChange]

He's right, but it's still shit to have to deal with such knuckle dragging fuckheads.

[SiamoFottuti]

see what I mean about the morons? This is why we need so-called Political Correctness (a stupid and inaccurate term) in the first place, because some morons need to be explicitly told that obviously racist terms are racist.

Have you ever noticed that those complaining about PC gorn mad are the ones defending their rights to display golliwogs and call people paki's? Funny that.

[OpinionatedMum]

[minimisschief]

Also at the post above. the term i cannot be racist because i have black friends makes perfect sense. they are simply saying i am not racist i just really hate you as a person. Funniest thing i ever saw was on jerry springer and someone said is it because i am black (cliche i know) and the guy turned around and said no its because you are an arsehole.

[Malcontentinthemiddle]

And you're absolutely sure that's the funniest thing you've ever seen?

[GaramMasalaGirl]

Oh great....quotes from the Jerry Springer show on a thread about racism

[FreudianSlipper]

so just because someone has a black friend and they use racist terms towards others means they are not racist

some people claim they are bnp supporters too and are not racists just do not want more immigrants in the country

[KeepTheChange]

Sorry minimiss I don't understand what you're saying.

[SiamoFottuti]

You'll see then minimiss that me repeatedly calling you a moron is not being rude, since I don't mean it to be. And honestly, some of my friends are morons, or at least my family.

[grovel]

How can a golliwog be racist? It's an inanimate object. The concept may be racist, I suppose.

[SiamoFottuti]

How can words be racist? They are inanimate too.

[minimisschief]

well no not the funniest thing i have ever seen obviously. just rather funny and sort of made me chuckle because some people try to use the race card wherever possible when racism isn't actually happening.

But again i see nothing wrong with a gollywog unless they are being used offensively as an insult.

It is sort of like hating on people with swastika symbols because in your eyes they are nazi supporting evil people. When infact they could be displaying for one of hundreds of different meanings depending on what it is in reference too.

point i am trying to make is that things unless they are used to cause offense you cannot just label them racist. A white person being nasty to a black person does not make them a racist and vise versa. And unless the person openly states they are racist and their whole ideals and attitudes to other races shows prejudiced and hate for the sake of hate you cannot go arresting people for it.

[grovel]

Words are not racist. The people who spout them may be.

[minimisschief]

I do not see how this is hard. You cannot have black friends if you are racist. It makes absolutely no logical sense.

[KeepTheChange]

The swastika? Just a bit of fun!

You can't go around arresting people for being all racialist, yeah, unless they SAY "I AM A RACIST AND AM NOW GOING TO DO A RACIST THING ON YOU"

Brilliant.

[KeepTheChange]

It's ok minimiss, I think you said it all with your last point. It's kind of difficult to talk to someone with such different views to my own.

[SiamoFottuti]

of course you can you knobber. It makes perfect logical sense.

And how many swastikas do you see that aren't for the nazis?

I refuse to beleive you are not pretending, because nobody is that thick.

[MillyR]

The thing about racism is that it isn't logical, whoever does it or whoever their friends are.

[GwendolineMaryLacey]

It is sort of like hating on people with swastika symbols because in your eyes they are nazi supporting evil people. When infact they could be displaying for one of hundreds of different meanings depending on what it is in reference too.

Um, there is no debate about swastikas, they're a cut and dried case. With a golly you've at least got the people who had them as kids and saw them simply as childhood toys without thinking of the connotations.

Don't think you'll find many cuddly swastikas outside Nazi Germany. Any previous use of swastika-like symbols is far too obscure for most people to be aware of.

[grovel]

The swastika (Sanskrit: स्वस्तिक) is an equilateral cross with its arms bent at right angles, in either right-facing (卐) form or its mirrored left-facing (卍) form. Earliest archaeological evidence of swastika-shaped ornaments dates back to the Indus Valley Civilization of Ancient India as well as Classical Antiquity. Swastikas have also been used in other various ancient civilizations around the world. It remains widely used in Indian Religions, specifically in Hinduism, Buddhism and Jainism, primarily as a sacred symbol of good luck.

[minimisschief]

maybe i am not explaining this very well. The woman in this article is claiming that the golliwog was offensive right. however the woman displaying it for all you know had the doll as a child and was putting it in her window. it could have absolutely no racist intent.

It however could, and unless you know the persons background. For example does she dehumanise black people, talk about or too them as lesser people. be nasty in reference to their race etc etc.

So again my point is that the gollywog is not racist in itself. it is only racist if it is used in a racist and negative way. Sitting on a windowsill is not being offensive.

[minimisschief]

Are you kidding me about the swastika. It being used by the nazis was miniscule in comparison to what it is and was used for centuries. So it is hardly a cut and dry case. I used that to prove a point that people would find it offensie when it could not be at all.

[SiamoFottuti]

Look around Europe, there are no swastikas, sanskrit or otherwise.


The gollywog is racist no matter what the intent. Because it is and always was a racist symbol, a nasty offensive characature. It doesn't matter what the intent was.