Should I force DD to give up her trombone lessons?

[AgentZigzag]

About a year and a half ago 10 YO DD1 started weekly lessons to learn to play an instrument for the local brass band.

They give you the instrument and you pay twenty odd quid for the insurance.

She started off on the euphonium and about 9/10 months ago went onto the trombone.

I reckon she's doing really well, reading music and that, the bloke she has lessons with thinks the same and she should be doing her grade 1 in the next couple of months.

The problem is she doesn't practice at home, we've 'encouraged' her to do it and said if her teacher thinks she's good when she doesn't practice just think how well she'd play with a bit each/every other night. She enjoys it when she's at her lesson, but maybe sees practicing as a chore but doesn't want to give in/up.

I'd be interested to know whether other posters think she's not practicing because she's a 10 YO and has better things to do, or whether the lessons are on to a road to nowhere because if she was into it she'd want to practice?

This came up a few months ago and we gave her a certain amount of time to show us she could practice before we said it might be a good idea to let it go and someone else's child have a go. She didn't practice.

It's come up again because we're going through a skint phase and with the £20 we pay for insurance, plus the time DH loses in pay when he has to leave early from work to get her to her lesson, could help out quite a lot.

I'm stalling because I want her to have the benefit of being able to read music/play instrument/play in band, so is it worth it scraping the cash for such a long term benefit? How have other peoples DCs music lessons panned out?

I did think last night that perhaps I could offer her an alternative activity like swimming/dancing that's not so 'expensive'? She has her own trombone as well, so she could keep it up and maybe start lessons at some time in the future, she's moving to a new school as she'll be in Yr 7 next year, so perhaps they'll have lessons.

I just keep going round and round in circles because I don't want to do wrong by her, what do you think?

[AgentZigzag]

So a bit like writing katisha? Yes, I can see what you're saying.

It helps to know she doesn't necessarily need to practice or throw herself into it at this stage, just keep it ticking over until the muso bug bites her?

[motherinferior]

I had the sort of parents who reinforced practice times, and I have to say I resented it deeply. I felt bullied. And in all honesty, yes music was an important part of my adolescence but that was partly because I had no other things I was meant to be doing. I hit 18, left school and realised I was much happier hanging around in lefty meetings than at orchestra practice. I sing, now, at quite a high chamber choir level and do enjoy it hugely....but I still remember that joyless bullying to practise, and try to avoid that with my daughters.

So yes, practice is crucial, but please don't make it into an almighty battle.

[AgentZigzag]

Or doesn't bite, whatever the case may be.

[motherinferior]

I really wish I'd practised less . I was very miserable as a teenager.

[AgentZigzag]

Your post is exactly what stops me constantly hassling her motherinferior, and I would have to hassle her, she's good at getting distracted despite good intentions.

[AgentZigzag]

I was miserable too MI, no instrument involved though

[ZZZenAgain]

put it on a stand higher up?

you won't like this but my recommendation is to go and sit in the room with her and talk to her whilst she sets up and listen and encourage whilst she practises.

I knew you wouldn't like it :)

For about a year or so, then she'd be in the swing of it

[Katisha]

So how about :

1. Trombone out of case and ready at all times.
   
2. You say "right practise time" about 4 times a week and sit with her for 10 mins or so.
   
3. Do some sort of star chart wth rewards.
   

Could work I reckon.

(I find the hard part about this arrangement is being in the mood myself, especially when knackered after work and DCs in whingey mood. Mornings before school could also work if you are that sort of person!)

What does her teacher say? I would be pretty dispirited teaching a child who never actually practised...

[HPonEverything]

I was EXACTLY like your daughter at her age - I loved my instruments which I played from a very young age, and loved lessons, but I never ever practiced.

The reason was that I was embarrassed to play at home, simple as that. My dad would make a big thing about it when I started getting my 'cello out (another PITA instrument to set up - trombone stand idea further up is excellent btw) and I always felt like they were listening and possibly criticising. I hate any fuss and my dad would comment on the things I'd played and although I'm sure he meant well and would never have said if I sounded awful, I also hated him saying I sounded good, if that makes any sense. I probably went a good few years without practicing once at home.

I had a box room with no room to play in (not even room for a bed), so I had to play in the dining room which had french windows through to the lounge where they were sat - I felt so watched! Could this be the case for your DD?

We used to get given 'practice cards' which parents had to sign, and to my shame I'd forge mine . I've never forged anything else, honest.

I'd practice when they went out, but usually my other instrument (piano) which is easier to hop on and off than faff about with tuning a cello.

I would have HATED having to give 'cello up though, it gave me so many social and travel opportunities, looked great on the UCAS form and all that, and I think the brass band can only be a good thing for your DD.

[HPonEverything]

Oh also want to say my parents weren't pushy AT ALL, they didn't care if I practiced or not. In fact my mum didn't want me to go to piano lessons and I had to beg. It might've been different if they were the type who were pushy. Not sure why I forged the practice card, they'd probably have signed it anyway!

[motherinferior]

My ex's sister recorded herself practising on tape (this was the 1970s) and used to put a cassette on and recline with a copy of Jackie magazine. It was weeks till she was busted.

Respect.

[stealthsquiggle]

I would agree with all those who have said it needs to be at hand.

DS (8) will practice, pretty much unprompted, whichever piano piece(s) I just "happen" to leave out on the music stand - I hate to think what I would have to do to make him just "happen" to practice an instrument which needed setting up

[EternalFootman]

I am a professional classical musician. I love my instrument and I love music. I've had to make major personal sacrifices to get my career to the point it's at and to continue to move forward, and I don't regret any of it for a second.

However, I hate (hatehatehatehate) practising. Once I start I'm fine and can play for hours, but getting going is an absolute pain in the arse and because I don't have a very good grasp of cause and effect I find it difficult to motivate myself. My housemate knows this, and reminds/forces/cajoles as appropriate because he cares about me and wants to avoid me malingering around the house moaning about having no work and not paying the rent help me do well :)

Of the children I teach, far and away the most successful are the ones whose parents structure and reinforce a practice schedule at home. It doesn't have to be very much (10-15 mins twice a week is fine for a beginner, any more is a bonus), but as one parent/music teacher said regarding her own daughter "If you want them to learn an instrument you have to do it for them at that age".

If she is enjoying the lessons and ensemble work, don't feel guilty for structuring her week's practice for her so that she really gets the full benefit of them. She will soon reap the rewards and want to play for longer at home with less coercion!

[Thumbwitch]

It's a bit tricky. If you can still just about manage it, I would let her continue - but keep asking her if she would rather give it up. I was a shocker at doing my piano practice when I was her age! No particular reason other than laziness and I improved anyway through the lessons.

It would be helpful to have the thing out and ready to play at all times though, definitely. Does she have a designated area to practise in, where she won't be disturbed? can you make her one?

[AgentZigzag]

Great post HP, thanks.

She says she likes me listening, but I suppose because it's so loud everyone else can hear too and it kind of makes a big thing of her playing. Her band leaders parents live next door to us and she asks/knows when she's practiced, I wonder if it gets back to him.

If I think about it, if I had to boot up the computer and log on to MN before turning it all off after I'd looked, I'd probably wouldn't bother (and get more done ).

I go on because it's easy.

She's got a DD2 proof alcove at the top of her bed where she could leave it out, it's worth a try.

I always wanted to play the piano, we had one but I could never be tempted to play more than chopsticks

[Sleepyspaniel]

Yes, stop the lessons. Trombone is a useless instrument and sounds awful on its own. The only useful and pleasant ones are piano, for the keyboard/theory skills and doing carols at Christmas/songs at birthday parties, and guitar, because it's portable, good for jamming with mates when older and it's cool. Saxaphone is pretty good too.

She'll have probably learned how to read music to a basic level. If she's a musical genius she'll pick it up again in her teens of her own accord.

I speak as a Grade 8 panist and Grade 8 violinist forced to practise for years. Am I grateful? No.

[motherinferior]

[5Foot5]

Sleepyspaniel

The trombone is a beautiful instrument as close to perfect as can be! It does not sound awful on its own!! And anyway I bet there is more chance to play it with lots of other people than there is with a piano so yah boo suck to that.

[Katisha]

[MissMarjoribanks]

I still play in an orchestra. Do I practice? Do I heck. I just can't motivate myself. I even bought myself a cello stand so I could just pick it up and it made no difference. The only time I do anything between rehearsals is where we have a tricky bit which is exposed and I would make a tit of myself if I played it badly. There's my motivation.

My mum had to cajole me to practice as a child. I didn't resent her for it because I needed the push to do it. I did find it a lot easier if she sat in with me. It's lonely practising on your own in a room when everyone else was elsewhere in the house. She used to read a book, or I used to do it in the kitchen when she washed up.

I responded really well to 'that was rubbish, do it again' and lots of impressions of cats being strangled. My sister would have cried buckets with that approach. However you do it, you need to let her know you're listening.

[ZZZenAgain]

at least you can try and put a trombone up out of the reach of a 2 year old, very difficult to do that with a piano

don't actually have a clue about trombones and whether I like them or not!

So are you sticking with it Zig?

[redheadbedhead]

I was a reluctant practise-r but am now a professional violinist and teacher of small reluctant children so I speak from experience of both ends....

best things to do if you think she genuinely wants to carry on - (only you know this for sure):

1. find somewhere to leave the trombone out as 5foot5 suggested. The setting up stuff DEFINITELY puts kids off, even the ones that love their lessons and band practice.
   

1. make practice part of a routine in the same way homework is - even 5 minutes before dinner/bed/tv is better than nothing
   

1. join in with the practice - read the teachers notes, help her, ask her questions. ALL my pupils who have parental help do better, without fail.
   

1. some kids find it helpful to have a timer/stopwatch to actually know that they've done 5-10 mins, and afterwards they can stop
   

if all else fails, bribery.

She seems to be doing well (the trombone is a hard instrument - my husband teaches it and not many kids even bother getting to grade 1) so it seems a shame to stop, unless it really is too difficult financially.

[snorkie]

well, she is making progress anyway so I'd usually suggest keeping going for now as her interest might improve as she gets better, but on the other hand she seems to be making no effort at all to do any practice ever which is a cause for concern. Does her teacher realise she isn't practising and could you get him/her to apply some pressure too? I think taking to him/her about the problem should be the next step. Does she know how to practice even? Might it help if the teacher took some time one lesson to show her what to do?

I also second what others have said regarding keeping the instrument out ready to play if at all possible.

I am also of the school of not pushing too much - one of my dc was just like me, never practised and gave up both her instruments (she didn't learn both at once) but did get to grade 2 on one of them (which isn't of any use at all longer term). The other was an intermittent practiser and non practiser of two instruments (it tended to be one or the other and sometimes neither but like HPonEverything was far more drawn to the easier to access piano than the cello) and has done well on both, so I reckon it is possible to get to a decent standard with intermittent practice but not no practice at all. One thing I would note though was that it tended to be exams that motivated ds to practice especially on cello, so maybe you could continue to grade 1 and see if that motivates your dd too? I think if you really can't get her to do any practice ever though it may be time to draw a line under it although it would be a shame as she's enjoying it.

[larrygrylls]

from AliGrylls

I was a reluctant clarinetist and I have complete sympathy with HP. My dad used to sit with me whilst I was practising and thought he was helping when he would say "can you play this / try this etc". I think I felt like I could not get on with what I needed to so I just never took it out. The suggestions of bribery are a good idea, as are the suggestions of it being part of a routine and a minimum of 10 minutes a day. Actually getting it out of the box is 90% of the battle won - if you aim for 10 minutes a day and it ends up being twenty then it is a good practice.

[Sleepyspaniel]

OMG at 5-10-20 mins practice!!! I had to do half an hour of each most days!! And it was non negotiable too. Half an hour, get on with it, no silly nonsense. You don't want to do it? Tough. Get on that piano NOW. Etc etc. That's how to produce Grade 8s.. but most kids will hate you for it!!!