to think that this is not a suitable punishment for stabbing another child at school...

[ballstoit]

A Year 6 child at the junior school my DS is due to go to in September stabbed another child in the playground after school with a Stanley knife. He had carried the knife around all day, having brought it in from home and tried to stab the other child's face. The victim put their hand up in defence and was stabbed in the hand, and then the child was restrained by a parent before school staff also intervened.

The punishment, which according to the letter I have received tonight was approved by the police and 'Behaviour Support Team' in the council, is for the child to be kept in at lunchtime for a fortnight. The letter seems to be an attempt to calm the anger that a lot of parents feel about the incident. It doesn't detail the punishment but when I asked my DSs teacher she confirmed that this was the sanction the school had decided on.

AIBU to think this is not enough, and to be seriously concerned about my DS starting at this school in September?

[somethingwitty82]

YANBU at all. Violence at school is unreal and it is getting more serious at a younger age.

There are calls for instant prison sentence for those caught with knifes so why is a boy using one let off so slightly?!

And yes many children do stab people for no reason, maybe he showed him disrespeck innit' or maybe he just enjoys it

[kaid100]

Paperview, if the school isn't properly punishing violent children, then it does affect ballsoit as it places her own child at risk. I'm not concluding one way or the other whether this school is handling it the right way, but it's fair for ballstoit to enquire here whether we think she is being unreasonable.

[c0rn55ilk]

FFS do posters really expect the police/social services and any other agency that may be involved with this child to send a letter to individual parents announcing what retribution is to be taken? If it wasn't your child then it's none of your business. Why do you need to know?

[ScarlettIsWalking]

Don't keep your ds at this school. Are there alternatives?

[Birdsgottafly]

Omigawd- the problem is as this forum shows is that many conditions are 'not believed in' and the child does not deserve to be stigmitised and have his medical condition broadcast to ignorant people. It is in everyones interest to make sure that the services exsist that are needed, but that is all.

kaid- do you not think that it should be about putting things in place that would work rather than punishment. The old borstal system for boys in particular was proven to just turn the children more violent and cut them off from changing by removing them from the community and education.

Also the boy may have undiagnosed issues, they may be diagnosed but with the closure of SEN provision, there is no alternative but to keep the child in the school.

[JamieAgain]

I agree that there is probably something going on that you don't know about. Quite rightly.

I also think that the child who was attacked needs to be helped, and that the PR needs to be managed so that parents are assured such things are not let go and that the safety of other children is paramount. OTOH there will be parents who will not be satisfied unless a child is summarily excluded, which might not be the best option for an individual child of this age, in terms of changing their behaviour.

[exoticfruits]

A lot may well be going on behind the scenes but the other DCs won't know this. Exclusion sends out the message that it isn't acceptable and won't be tolerated.

[fairydoll]

Do you know the whole story though? perhaps this kid had bullied and bullied the boy for ages, school done nothing and he acted in desperation.Of course this doesn't excuse his attack but it does cast things in a very differnt light.

[nickschick]

My ds got stabbed in the face with a pencil the 'bully' had sharpened it especially and it was small enough for him to conceal in his hand ready for when he attacked my son,he stabbed it in and dragged it down 2-3 cm quite deeply.

The head teacher rang me and asked me to go in to discuss my son fighting in school? I was told the other boy scratched him with sharp fingernails and had been sent home and was banned from the school trip the following day.

I in my innocence said if ds had fought back (this was the first time before that the bully had had free rein) then perhaps that was more than enough punishment and we should '6 of one half dozen of the other approach it.

A few days later the mid day supervisor relayed the story back to me and I was very me and dh approached the head who said she told me it was a pencil stab i think id have remembered that.

[Birdsgottafly]

Do you really think that children who are violent (with no SN) are committed pupils who fear being excluded? How does damaging a childs education help them? The other children will believe that they don't care about being excluded because of their immaturity, it isn't something that the other children can really rationalise, they just need to know that the school is doing all it can to keep them safe and wider society also, for the future as well by doing whay will be more productive to stop the 'bad' behaviour..

[MaureenMLove]

For a child to behave like that, at the tender age of 10/11, he can only have learnt his behaviour from one place - his home environment. It's either learnt behaviour from home or a reaction to the way he is treated at home.

There will be many more outside agencies involved, as well as school safeguarding & Behaviour Support Team. People that are trained to look after the boys needs and help him.

Keep him in school (but under supervison in his free time) and he can be helped.

Exclude him and make him stay at home? He could be back with a blade before you know it....

[Birdsgottafly]

Just a thought OP, wouldn't you be concerned if the school had just excluded the boy and he was wandering around your area looking for mischief to get upto? I won't say or being more adversely affected by his home environment as you don't know all the circumstances but sometimes that is a possibility.

[JoySzasz]

I am sorry but I have zero sympathy for the kid that used the knife.

I think he should be expelled and placed in a different type of institution.

My son (7) has had a knife pulled on him,it hits home.

Not all children from troubled homes commit this type of thing...it was planned and he intended to hurt.

Where is the protection for the innocent child?

At 10/11 he knew exactly what he was doing.

[Omigawd]

"FFS do posters really expect the police/social services and any other agency that may be involved with this child to send a letter to individual parents announcing what retribution is to be taken?"

And why exactly is it deemed unreasonable to answer yes?

That could have been an eye. And while it is clear the kid has ishoos, at the end of the day the right of that kid to have ishoos does not exceed the rights of the other kids not to be stabbed.

[JoySzasz]

omigawd exactly.

We send our children to school and expect them to be save from knife attacks.

Of course, the parents want more information,maybe some of them have children that will be moving schools with this kid in the Autumn ?

[Birdsgottafly]

The details cannot be publised because of data protection, confidentiality etc. The child has a right not to have their personal circumstances broadcast. This will victimise the child which will not make anything better, it will just isolate him further. America is a good example where boys who have become isolated have obtained firearms and killed other students. What is being suggested used to be done (otherwise known as 'give a dog a bad name') it didn't work.

[JoySzasz]

I understand that birds but what is in place for the other parents then,so they feel safe about sending their children to school.

[Birdsgottafly]

In truth the only thing that will make schools and society 'safer' is the investment in services, so the likely hood of these incidents happening are minimised. The boy will still be living in the community, i don't see how just removing him from school will make the area any safer to grow up in for the other children. If it is coming from home then the whole family need intervention, but with daily cuts, he will probably have to commit a violent offence before he gets the right help, there are usually two victims in these cases, IME.

[takethisonehereforastart]

My neice was beaten black and blue once by three girls in her year, one of her eyes was closed for two weeks, the other was bloodshot and she still had visible bite marks on her arms and legs a month later.

Because the girls were out of school uniform and on the public street outside the school grounds at the time the school said that they had to wait for the police decision to prosecute or not before they could suspend or exclude the girls as for the school to decide in advance could mean a biased influence any court case that may arise and breach their human rights, even though the girls were still threatening to attack my neice again if she showed her face at school again.

The school decided they could put my neice into voluntary solitary learning instead, effectively punishing her for what happened under the guise of keeping her safe by keeping her out of her classes, away from her friends and inside all day including breaks and meal times. While the girls who attacked her walked around laughing about it.

In the end the police couldn't raise enough evidence to prove my neice hadn't agreed to the fight and let the girls go with a "talking to." And my neice had to change schools to keep her safe and get her out of solitary learning because the school were helpless once the police made that decision.

[JoySzasz]

birds I see :)

I used to think a lot like you,I thinkideally it is right what you are saying but...what about the innocents?

Too often the victim comes off worse,just read takethis post and there is another example.

I think it is tough ,and I am fed up with violence in schools I guess.

takethis so sorry btw:(

[Birdsgottafly]

I will say that i think that the child who is violent is also being done a disservice because the only place they are heading is an adult prison or poverty. You cannot have a violent offence on your record and still work in most jobs now. More should be done in some cases to find out where the aggression is coming from and deal with it early.

My own DD was attacked and had to change schools because a girl in the care system was targeting her in school through jealousy and there was no other answer to how to solve it. The other girl needed therapy because of her childhood but the support wasn't there for her and as a society we don't want to pay for it, but it costs more to have an adult who doesn't contribute and ends up in the justice system.

[Peachy]

It's in no way suitable as a punishment IMO

DS1 has threatened to stab otehr children, and we have ahd angry aprents kncoking at the door. Now ds1 has ASD so says some crap at times but he got off with nothing done, i'd have supported an exclusion.

We only knew due to angry dad.

I did mange to get a lunchtime TA appointed but that took me over a year even with a statement already in place.

I agree exclusions don't always achieve much but you can be damned sure it would have done here!

[Peachy]

'"things are going on behind closed doors as its none of the other parents' business" is bollocks, because all it does is foster FUD and resentment. far better to have it out in public.

'


Now that I don;t agree with

Parents at ds1's l;ast school got up a petition (long before he got very aggressive I should add), at this complained like hell.

Understandable.

Except when ds3 who is as timid as a mouse was dx'd he was treated the same way as for many people ds1 came to define asd. Hugely unfair on ds3.

Does work both ways though; ds1 was attacked by a gang of 12 before the stabbing thing and had shoe shaped bruises, that went unpunished as well. Thankg oodness we have a new Head!

[bubblecoral]

I think the argument that "things are going on behind closed doors as its none of the other parents' business" is bollocks, because all it does is foster FUD and resentment. far better to have it out in public.

First, what does FUD mean?

Second, better for who? Parents who's children have not been affected in the slightest to get some sense of satisfaction? Or the child who at 11 years old has, from somewhere, got the idea that taking a knife to school and using it against someone else would be a good idea?

Of course children have the right to be safe at school, and parents have the right to feel confident that their children are safe while they are at school, but the parents have been reassured that something si being done, that the police and behaviour support have been involved. It's being dealt with, it is then up to individual parents whether they want to trust the school or not, but a child should not have his personal problems aired in public just to make parents feel better.

I have an 11yo. It wouldn't enter his head that taking a knife into school was an option. It just simply wouldn't even begin to occur to him, and I'm certain that if I told him that a child in another school had done that he would be shocked and have no clue why anyone would feel the need to do that. I think he'd probably just think it was plain odd. But the point I'm trying to make is that for an 11yo to consider taking a knife to school, there has to be something very wrong in his life. Someone somewhere has failed him. Why would he do it otherwise? Happy, well cared for, well adjusted children just don't take it upon themselves to find a knife and plan to take it into school then use it.

I agree that the needs of the victim should come first, but the needs of the boy who did this have to come a very close second. The fact is that he probably does have much bigger problems that have been going on for a long time, and will probably continue to go on after the victims fear has gone and the scars have dissappeared. It's very sad for everyone concerned.

[JoySzasz]

Indeed ,sad for everyone.

But,unfortunately for many the fear never disappears -even if the scars do.

You know,sometimes people are just plain nasty.This child took a knife to school and used it!

The incident could have been a whole lot worse. What measures would be in place then? I am over feeling much for kids that attack... for whatever reason unfortunately.

You are right though, there is always more than one victim...just not feeling it these days though.