To be fed up that nursery taught DD "sorry"?

[tallulah]

... without an appreciation of what it actually entails?

I don't know how other 4 yos are but my DD has taken to "sorry" like a hail mary. :( Nursery insist they say sorry, which would be OK if she meant it, but at home if we tell her off/ ask her to stop doing something she just blithely says "sorry" and then carries on doing it. It's as if she thinks that the word is enough to absolve her and she doesn't need to actually modify her behaviour in any way.

It is driving us demented. I would rather she didn't say sorry at all but that's going against what nursery is doing.

Any suggestions?

[griphook]

ffs nursery staff just can't win can they, it they bother doing their jon they are moaned at and if they don't they are moaned at as well.

[griphook]

*job

[Allinabinbag]

One of mine refused to say sorry if she was told off/put in time out/sent to her room (shouting 'I will never be sorry, you can't make me sorry'). She would hold out for an hour or so. I used to wait til she was genuinely sorry, there's no point in a half hearted muttered 'sorry'.

It took her a long time, the word was overwhelming to her as it meant admitting she was in the wrong!

This is not the nursery's fault, your daughter is trying it on, it's fairly obvious what you have to do: say, 'well, you are obviously not remotely sorry as you are carrying on jumping on the sofa' and use your normal sanction/response for that.

[ballstoit]

YANBU...all the 1, 2, 3 and 4 year olds that others are boasting of are not 'sorry', they want to get the adult off their back. IMO (and that of child psychologists, I'll find some in a mo), 4 year olds can only understand someone else's view if it doesn't clash with their own. So, they are not 'sorry' that they hit, pushed or snatched, they just hope that this will be a faster route to getting what they want.

Your DD will modify her behaviour in time, your role is to model the behaviour you want and tell her when she's done wrong. Feel free to ask for a sorry, but be aware that it has very little meaning to her, sadly the poorly educated staff at most nurseries will not really have a grasp of how children's brains develop (flame away).

[babybythesea]

We have a bit of the same problem here tallulah. My 2 yo dd will often say sorry and then do the thing again (usually hitting me, at the moment ). If the apology doesn't sound sincere, I say 'Sorry means you won't do it again.' Just to sort of reinforce the point. But I drop it then. If, however, she continues to do whatever it was, then I tell her 'You said sorry, and now you are (insert crime here) again. That makes me very sad' or words to that effect. And then she gets the sanction (mostly, to sit on her own away from me and all her toys). And then when she rejoins me, I remind her again that sorry means that she won't do it again.
It's a phase...it's a phase...it's a phase..!! But, on the upside, if she does something accidentally (like tread on my foot) she will spin round and say 'sorry Mummy' so she does know. And I can tell from the tone of her voice whether she's using sorry properly, or whether she's trying to buy herself out of trouble.
I also make sure I use sorry to her and I try not to do it in situations that I know will be repeated, if that makes sense. So, if I get shampoo in her eyes, I say sorry and say I will try really hard not to do it again. If I am changing her nappy and she has bad nappy rash (which she is prone to - goes from fine to bleeding within about 10 minutes if I'm not super-careful), then cleaning her up hurts her. I try really hard not to say sorry in that situation - I can't leave her dirty, cleaning hurts, I can promise to be as gentle and as fast as possible but I cannot say sorry I hurt you I won't do it again. I will, as soon as the next change is required and I know it. Tough, though, when your child is screaming 'please Mummy no' and sobbing in pain.

[nzshar]

Society needs sorry from a child. There is no harm in saying sorry and as they get older the recognition of what sorry "actually" means dawns on them (if taught). Not use it at all and a 5/6 year old can not grasp the notion as fast and may have social problems. What actual harm is it doing?!

[babybythesea]

Slightly off topic -when I read the first few posts I was imagining the Daily Mail take on it over the next few days. (This was before you clarified, Tallulah).
Tomorrow would be 'Nursery forces child to apologise' with an article all about the torture that was inflicted on OP's small and innocent infant, the psychological damage that was inflicted as a result and accompanied by a photo of sad-looking mother and child.

Tuesday's article is 'Manners a thing of the past - society is going to hell in a handcart'. And it will describe at length how various random adults were shocked and horrified to discover that today's children do not even know how to apologise for their actions ... what are we teaching them now for goodness sake?' And there will be a photo, blurry, of a young teenager clutching alcohol.

Maybe I should write the articles first and earn some money for it....

[baskingseals]

YANBU
she is 4. she is the ruler of the universe. she's not sorry.
forced appologies are a power struggle between parent and child, i don't see any value in them.

she will get older, and she will be genuinely sorry that she has hurt somebody.

[ballstoit]

nzshar, it would appear that for the OPs DD that saying sorry doesnt improve her behaviour in any way and possily makes it worse.

Social problems are more likely to be caused by being cared for by adults who have little or no understanding of children's cognitive development, particularly if the adults are poorly paid and have no vested interest in the child's well being.

[worraliberty]

Your second post makes more sense...but it's still not the nursery's fault.

She's well old enough at the age of 4 for you to punish her bad behaviour and expect her to say sorry after the punishment.

By that time they usually are sorry...even if it's more for the fact they got caught and punished in the first place

[brokencrayons]

my daughter has known to apologise after doing wrong since the age of two. Are you more annoyed that they have taught her before you?

[nzshar]

does that include nursery teachers ballstoit?

[bupcakesandcunting]

My child knew how to apologise when he was in the womb. He apologised to me in advance for the pain I was going to be in when he decided to pop out.

[nzshar]

All I can say is what I did with ds and those experiences are what I go on. DS had time out and was made to say sorry to me, or another child or an adult at the time of the incident from around 3. It for me was not so much about the word but the tone that the behaviour was not acceptable and in time he learnt empathy, therefore the meaning of sorry as well as tone.

[nzshar]

:o @ bupcake

[EggyAllenPoe]

bupcakes that's nothing, mine apologised during ovulation.

out the egg popped 'Sorry' it said. little eggy fucker.

[ChaosTrulyReigns]

My DC learned "sorry" when they were a twinkle in Dh's eye.



[waggle]

[bupcakesandcunting]

Geroff you big lezzer!

[choccyp1g]

How many men use the words "I've said I'm sorry", thinking it absolves them of all responsibility, when you are actually trying to convince them to modify their behaviour?
Have you checked inside her pants recently? Maybe she is in fact a boy.

[ballstoit]

@nzshar yes, I do include nursery teachers, not that most nurseries have one

[EggyAllenPoe]

the twinkle in DH's eye is apologising to me right now.

it is a twinkle that is (at least outwardly) ashamed to twink.

[A1980]

YABU it's your job as a parent to teach your own four year old the meaning of the word sorry and to say it. Is everything the school or nurseries job these days?

It was in the paper last week that schools are banning children that haven't been toilet trained yet as it isn't their job either to potty train children.

[scottishmummy]

why havent you taught her manners,instead of nursery having to
bit slack to reach 4yo and not be addressing sorry and when to say so appropriately

[Again]

I'm shocked that there are so many people who do not understand that forcing children to say sorry does not help them to empathise it's more likely to make them angry.

I recently started asking ds to say please and thank you (he's 3.11). He said it in such a fake voice sugary sweet voice and it was driving me nuts, so I said he didn't have to say it to me unless he wanted to and that I like doing things for him.