Horrible row with dh :-(

[littlepigshavebigears]

I know I am at least partially in the wrong here

basically I feel that dh shouts at the kids too much and for the wrong things

he shouts at them for what I consider quite routine and normal brotherly joshing, because he thinks it will escalate and they will upset each other, or they will do it to other children and go too far and get into trouble

ds2 HAS gone too far with teasing and upset another child (he's 6) and we took it very seriously, made him apologise and he was very contrite

but I just think dh i9s overzealous - for example he bawled at them this morning because ds1 was gently tugging ds2's pony tail, he was sat on the sofa with ds2 leaning back into his lap sitting on the floor and they were gently teasing each other, ds1 was saying "this is your handle, ding dong" and they were both giggling

dh shrieked at them to stop it. I sent the boys to get their coats and then told dh I thought he was wrong to stop them from gentle play-acting (which I should NOT have done, I should have left it until later so the boys were unaware )

his view is that all behaviour of this sort needs stamping out because they will go too far and get into trouble (apparently they were told off at afterschool club the other day because ds2 hit ds1 on the arm after he pushed in front of him in the snack queue)

my view is that a certain amount of play fighting and joshing is inevitable between two brothers close in age, it is healthy, and what we should be doing is teaching them the difference between that and actual unkindness (which I think they know the difference anyway). Surely sometimes as brothers they WILL go too far and upset each other, but we don't need to throw the baby out with the bath water and stop them from doing what all brothers do? DH shouts at them for low-level "ner ner" type behaviour when they beat each other on the Wii as well because he thinks if we stamp it all out, then they will not go too far and upset somebody

it all ended very unpleasantly with me saying "maybe we should just have a three foot rule then fgs" and him stomping out - he is quite rightly upset in part because I tackled him while the boys were still in earshot but also he deeply disagrees with me, and I foresee more conflict over it

who is right? I can take it if you all say I am an arsehole

[littlepigshavebigears]

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[FourFortyFour]

I can see why he does it and think I may have been guilty of it in the past, but you need to compromise as you need to be consistent.

[diddl]

I think that on the whole you are right, but I personally can´t abide hair pulling at all, so would have had to stop that straight away

And the fact that they were told off at school unfortunately (for you) gives him a bit of a point.

[ChickensHaveNoEyebrows]

Oh, I don't know. It depends on how often the play fighting turns in to armageddon in my book. Sometimes I have a zero tolerance on any kind of arsing about because I've just reached the end of my rope playing referee. Are they going through a particularly tricky patch with regards to trying to kill each other? Could your DH just be exasperated?

[thelittlestkiwi]

does your husband have brothers? is it possible one of them was rough with him as a kid?

[Mumwithadragontattoo]

Neither of you is wrong as such you just have different toleration of what amounts to bad behaviour. I think from your description your husband over-reacted to the boys actions today but I can understand him trying to nip things in the bud earlier especially if there have problems outside the house. You need to discuss what you think is acceptable and try and be consistent. But more than that you shouldn't undermine each other. So today you should have backed him up in front of the kids then raised it later.

Is your husband at home with the kids more than you? I only ask as it is easier to lose you patience if you've seen them low level bickering all day.

[squeakytoy]

because ds1 was gently tugging ds2's pony tail

YABU for your SON having a pony tail.

[RevoltingPeasant]

I don't have DCs, but my dad was very much the same with me and my DSis, and as we got older, it got VERY frustrating. He always interfered between us and I always wanted to shout, 'Fuck off, we'll work out our relationship between ourselves!'

That did result in some hitting/ nastiness occasionally but today I am very close to my DSis. I think when siblings are close in age it is just a natural part of sorting out boundaries between themselves. Sounds like DS1 is seeing how far he can go, what upsets DS2, what is funny. It's a basic people skill. It won't damage your DS2 I don't think, not if he is giggling about it.

tbh your DH sounds like the one with the problem and I wouldn't be surprised if your DSs come to resent his behaviour when they are older

[1234ThumbWar]

Are you sure he's doing it for the reasons he states and not because it's annoying to have children constantly bickering? I've been known to clamp down on mind for no other reason than it's wearing to be around.

[Lonnie]

you are both Unresonable as you wont listen to the other persons pow

You already admit you should not have tackled him in front of the kids. The 2 of you need to sit down and agree on ground rules both of you can cope with. You have to give a bit and he has to give a bit.

Personally I would have stamped down on any hairpulling I am with diddl there cant stand it.

[Niecie]

Setting aside discussing it in front of your DC, I think your DH is BU about this.

Children need to learn boundaries for themselves - they can't be enforced. There will be a certain amount teasing and joshing between 2 brothers (or indeed sisters) and the children need to learn when to stop and when it crosses over into unacceptable behaviour. They won't be able to do this if every time they interact together in anything other than talking, they get pounced on by your DH.

IMO occasionally children need to learn by their mistakes too. If they go too far and end up upset or fighting they will know better next time when to stop. That isn't to say they will never fight again - they are small boys and the lessons need reinforcing and repeating before they finally sink in - but if they aren't allowed to sort themselves out occasionally then they will never learn.

I have 2 boys too and most of the time they get on OK. I try not to intervene at every raised voice or shove. For one thing, these things often die down all by themselves - they have learned to compromise. For another micro managing their behaviour like your DH wants to do is extremely time consuming and frustrating for everybody and also it sets up resentment because nobody is ever allowed to relax.

On the whole I think YANBU. Your DH needs to learn the difference between gentle teasing and joshing and a proper upsetting fight. He seems very heavy handed to me.

[stubbornhubby]

i get upset if I see (rarely) my children being unkind to siblings, and especially if I see the larger ones using physicial force to dominate the smaller ones.

If they can't treat their own family decently then who are they going to be there for? Who is going to be there for them? it's important.

so the way you described the incident, sounds like he over-reacted, but I bet if he described it, it would sound different.

[bluebellewood]

My friend has 3 brothers they josh each other, play fight, roll around on the floor, whenever they are together.They drive their mother mad. They are the best of friends and always stick together when threatened. They are aged fifty, forty seven,and forty two years old.
This could go on for sometime with your boys!

[stream]

Your dh is over zealous, but I wonder whether he was a younger brother and was bullied by an older sibling?

[SeeJaneKick]

He could see trouble coming perhaps? It's like my DDs...one will be poking the other nd they're both laughing....the next thing the poke has turned into a slap and they are fighting.

How does DH feel about DSs ponytail? Was he perhaps reacting due to some discomfort about "boys with long hair" which is ridiculous of course but quite common.

He may have some masculine far of his son getting his ponytail pulled "Lik a girl"

[stream]

imo, I should add!

[SeeJaneKick]

"FEAR" not far

[SeeJaneKick]

I wasn't saying boys with long hair is ridculous...but the discomfort some people feel about it is ridiculous.

[Ormirian]

You are right! Your DH needs to step back and stop being such a police man.

Yes there are times when it might go too far but that is when you stop it, not NOW!

And as for tackling him when they were in earshot? Why not? They need to know you are defending them from his extreme reactions.

Tsk!

[scottishmummy]

pick parenting battles and low level ner-ner isnt it.

do both as parents be consistent dont enact disagreements out infront of your dc
do expect teasing.ner-ner and physical stuff,this cannot be stamped out.it can be decreased but certainly not eradicated

your dh seems to be more authoritarian or disciplinarian than you. But getting told off at ASC is an indication they are sometimes too boisterous

have private parental discussion,agree some mutually agreeable ground rules - be consistent

[Mamaz0n]

Firstly you are right, you should never bring up issues you have with each other's parenting in front of the children (unless it is a danger/risk thing obviously)

I would have said "errm we don't pull hair please. even if we are joking. thank you"

just to remind them that such behaviour is not on. but no i don't think he should have been shouting or being overly zealous about typical sibling play.

BUT as the oldest of 10 siblings i would say that there is no such thing as "play fighting" all aggressive messing around will eventually lead to one or the other acidentally being hurt and it will erupt.
It doesn't mean they need to be in trouble or told off. just that they are reminded that fighting is not permitted.

We learn through play. to play at fighting is to learn agression, imho.
I don't believe that it is a necessary part of growing up.

[Missymorrison87]

I do wonder why your son has a ponytail, but each to their own i suppose..


Unless one of your sons was holding the others head under water in the bath or strangling him with a skipping rope then your Husband is being an overyl strict arse. It will basically end up your kids not going near each other or having any fun because of his ways.... Think Rod and Tod from the simpsons..

[maxpower]

Haven't read all the posts as need to go out in a mo. I think it's about ensuring the children are aware of acceptable behaviour in any setting. My brohter, sister and I were always bickering, ganging up on each other, taking the piss etc when we were at home together as children, but we knew that there was a different expectation once we left teh house. Our parents weren't forever intervening at home and telling us off, but they did make it clear that while there were things we could get away with at home, we were to behave appropriately when out of the house (at school, visiting others, at the shops etc etc). Obviously physical violence would not have been tolerated at home. FWIW we all get on great as adults. It does sound as though your DH has either forgotten or doesn't understand what it's like to have siblings - is he an only child?

[Niecie]

I have to disagree with last statement MamazOn - play fighting doesn't teach aggression, it teaches how to handle aggression. Your own and other people's. Children learn to back off and when not to cross over into proper fighting. My boys bicker, they play fight but they are rarely properly agressive. They know when to stop (most of the time - I don't expect miracles, they are still young). I can say the same of myself and my brother - we fought when we are children, and we don't now. That is learned behaviour.

We don't learn aggression. We all have it within us to a greater or lesser extent. What we need to learn is how to handle it.