to think that it's unfair their aren't clubs solely for boys anymore?

[notterrysmine]

And if there are - please point them out to me.

My children are girly girls and boy boys. No intention on my part, but that is the way it is.

They adore each other, but their friends are of the same sex, they have chosen to go to same sex schools.

Now my girls have done girl guiding - very much for the girls and have thoroughly enjoyed it.

Now my son wants to do scouting, and in his particular group there are higher majority of girls and boys, he is not keen on continuing.

Even our boys brigade has girls and boys in it.

Girl guides are girls only with no equality issues - why can't there be boys only clubs?

AIBU?

As I say if there are boys only clubs please point them out to me.

[notterrysmine]

I disagree BeerTricksPotter with that they are born not made.

I am very much not a girly girl - no matter how much my mother and elder sisters wanted me to be, as a child I wore wellington boots and dungarees as I wanted to be a farmer, and that's how I thought I would be a farmer, no matter how pretty a dress my mother put on me she would find me mucking out the neighbours horses, rolling around in the hay barn, in the silos, in building sand on my dad's building sites.

I've never worn makeup, and will often leave the house, hastily running a hairbrush through my hair. I always wear trousers, and will never be found in skirts or dresses.

However, my dds despite having this as their roll model, from a very young age, wanted glitter in their hair, learnt to plait their own hair, as I was unable to do it, at 4, I caught my eldest smuggling lip gloss to school, as she 'didn't want to be seen without her makeup on'.

I have no craft, cookery, sewing, art ability in my body, either talent or inclination, the girls are so good at these skills, more than once I've been asked whether I had done the work for them, I had to assure the teacher, believe me that if I had done the work, no way would it of been up to that standard.

This is most certainly not nurtre and I believe is 100% nature.

My son on the other hand, has had these girls as well as my dh and I as his role models, and no matter how much persuasion they would get him to sit down and do art and craft with them, do cookery, be part of their tea parties, have his hair styled with gel.

You have a boy who would take himself away from the girls and play by himself with his cars, trains, work bench.

The older girls had all the electrical gadgets, he would take them (with permission) as they weren't interested, and would figure out on his own how they work, how to program etc.

If there is ever a ball around he'll be found kicking, throwing it, he's set up his own lunchtime football club for his year group this year, because there wasn't one running.

Again 100% nature not nurter.

If scouts are turning into guides due to the female aspect. Then that is a bad thing. If scouts stay as they were, with girls involved then that is less of an issue. But I still think that girls having the option of no boy space, it is unfair and not equality for boys to not have a no girl space option.

[taffetacat]

Have to say with my DC its nature, not nurture - so far. ( DS is 7, DD 4 ). I too, come from a long line of tomboys, as do the women on DH's side of the family. DD is a mystery to me!!

[EduStuckintheSnow]

I still think people are perhaps missing the point that the Scouts and Guides are two separate organisations.

The Scouts decided to accept girls. This had nothing to do with the Guides.

Perhaps there should be boys only clubs, but, for whatever reason, they have decided to accept girls.

I think it is utterly ridiculous to say that the Scouts are 'turning into' the Guides. They are still separate. However, it may be the case that Guides are embracing more activities, many considered traditionally the domain of boys, but also that the Scouts rely on volunteers and are likely struggling to find leaders willing to take 30 or so children on week long camping holidays trekking through the woods.

May I ask how you feel the involvement of girls have changed Scouting? (Don't mean to sound stroppy, am genuinely interested)

(Also, on your earlier link to the story about the lady joining the band, from what I make out she was invited to join by the band itself )

[ravenAK]

I left the Guides for Baden-Powell Scouts - back in the '80s they were the non-comformist awkward squad who'd been kicked out of the Scouting Association for refusing to not admit girls. I loved it...interesting that the SA are now letting girls in to combat falling numbers!

Ultimately, there's no real reason why a Scout troop couldn't do the same in reverse - go 'all boy' & opt out of the SA. Of course - the admin & organization would be a nightmare; but if the demand is there?

I do sympathise with the OP - IMO there's a place for all-boy/all-girl/mixed activities.

[Lamorna]

I agree with terrysmine and it it nature. Parents think they are all important but really they are not, as is shown by identical twins who are brought up apart with different families. My own DCs are as different as chalk from cheese. I thought, before I had children that they were a blank slate but I was amazed that they all had distinct minds of their own from the start. If you are lucky your DC will follow you but they may be complete opposites. My mother was a real tomboy and she had to put up with me being a 'girly' girl and I resisted all influence!

[EcoLady]

Just correcting an error that I have seen at least two posters make ... GirlGuidingUK IS a charity. The Charity Registration Number is 306016.

It's got nothing to do with our ability to remain a girls-only space.

[ShoppingDays]

YABU. Clubs should offer activities that may or may not be stereotypically for boys or girls, and see who wants to come along. This way children have a wider choice of what they'd enjoy, instead of only having the option of doing what is supposedly for their own gender.

[Longstocking2]

YANBU

My ds's cubs have no girls in them partly I suspect because the waiting list is so long and is full of boys.

I'm glad for him. I think it's really refreshing to have one thing that's all boys. I think it's taking the equality thing too far to have girls in scouts.

I assume it was equality legislation partly that has made the change.

[TiggyD]

I pointed out earlier that according to the 2010 equality act you can have clubs of a single sex.

[GrendelsMum]

But so much of what a Guide / Scout / Brownie etc pack can offer is down to the leaders, isn't it?

My sister leads a Brownie pack - she's very confident in the outdoors, loves camping, loves sailing, loves rock climbing, etc etc etc, so unsurprisingly, her Brownies get outdoors a lot. But it's because she's happy to lead this, and the parents are happy for their DDs to accompany her.

[IAPJJLPJ]

My ds age7 goes to Beavers and loves it.

Girls do attend and I have no issue with that as children should mix with both genders.

The only issue I do have is when the Leaders start to put a dampener on the boys being "boys".

I took my son to his camp and whilst waiting for the Leaders to allocate rooms four boys were standing (NOT running around) still pretending to shoot each other. Big deal.

They were not annoying anyone or being noisy at all.

The Leader said "oh I see I am going to have to enforce some rules this weekend. I cant have this boisterous behaviour".

So I suggested that she got out some knitting and had them skipping round, if that was more acceptable.

[ScienceDad]

My DW's Gay best friend tells me all about Clubs soley for boys every weekend :D

[Sirzy]

That's a problem with the leaders though! Having run many camps though rules are needed and need to be enforced properly otherwise you would have no hair by the end of the weekend! That said the comment from that leader she had no chance if she thought that was 'bad'

[BendyBob]

'I think its all down to the parents trying to be "alternative" '

Oh yes that'd be us alright. We sit at home racking our brains trying to come up with ideas to be alternative

[Lamorna]

I don't think that parents will get very far sending them to a club they don't want to attend. It should be their choice. When I was a DC there is no way that my mother would have got me to cubs, if there had been the choice in my day! Other girls would love it. It depends on the child.

[panettoinydog]

Nearly all teh football clubs I know are boys only.

Rugby is nearly all boys.

So that means it's pretty easy for boys to just socialise with boys.

[panettoinydog]

Why is everyone focusing on scouting? There are far easier ways for boys to mix solely with boys.

AT my skatepark, the boys all bike and skate while some girls hang about on the sidelines.

[bruffin]

But not all boys are into football and rugby or team sports!

[curlymama]

I agree with the OP completely, there should be boys only groups. It is completely unfair that girls can be in boys groups in the name of equality but the same doesn't happen the other way around.

I disagree that girliness or boyishness is all down to nurture. How many of us have seen our babies personalities begin to emerge before they are even on solids? I work in a nursery, and we work very hard to combat girl/boy stereotypes. But it is there regardless, the girls often like doing traditionally feminine activities and the boys like doing the traditionally boyish things. Yes, there are crossovers, lots of them, but girls and boys are not the same. they were born different for a reason.

[Lamorna]

Parents can try as hard as they like but if they have a DC who doesn't like getting dirty,is always a mess 5 mins after getting dressed, loves team sports, hates team sports, loves dolls,loves wearing jeans, loves dressing up long pink sparkly dresses, always has a nose in a book, will never read a book unless coerced etc etc etc they will not change them, whichever sex they happen to be!

[cakeretention]

It is saddening to hear those people promoting Guides as places where "girls may be girls" to the exclusion of boys. It's exactly this type of attitude (although the other way round) that continues to make workplaces and many sports clubs places where "men may be men" to the exclusion of women.

By all means make guides (and scouts) a great place to be. But not to the exclusion of anybody because of their gender. Yes, girls might leave because of this - as may men when their golf club starts allowing women to join. And I'm sure that such men get the sympathy they deserve....