To think that just because it was a student protest, it doesn't follow that the violent thugs in masks were students?

[LaWeaselMys]

Four of the people arrested were arrested for burglary -surely it is obvious that they were there for their own agenda? And took advantage of the students protesting as cover for their own actions?

They were wearing masks. Clearly didn't want to be identified. Peaceful student protestors were not.

The people attacking the royal car weren't yelling about student fees, neither the people that tried to break into the treasury.

There are no figures yet for how many of those arrested were actually students.

So before everyone jumps on the charge students more if they're going to vandalise things bandwagon. Can we have some acknowledgment of the fact that we've got no idea how many students were even involved.

[LaWeaselMys]

Thingumy you linked to an anti-authoritarian Twitter feed? Not sure what the point is? Yes, they agree with the violence - that's because they're anarchists. Not students. (in fact, they don't appear to be students anyway?)

[takethatlady]

ryoko what about nurses, social workers, teachers, lawyers who work for Legal Aid or are pro bono, all the people who don't get graduate jobs, stay at home mothers, charity workers, etc? They haven't earned more than a plumber/electrician just because they went to uni. Plus doctors and lawyers already pay more tax because they earn more! On that logic you should just up taxes for anybody who earns above a certain threshold, regardless of whether they went to uni or not.

Anyway, I accept you disagree with me on that. But calling an entire section of the population 'idiots' is the kind of thinking that gets us all in trouble.

This is all off topic again...

[Thingumy]

I thought they were students

[Ryoko]

I do find it funny that they can't be students if they are violent, shows this place really is middle class.

I wonder if there would have been such support for "youthful exhuberance" if it was about the Poll Tax riot, or if the Unemployed started rioting about the 10% drop in HB when you've been out of work for 12 months.

It's wonderful how people can put on beer goggles when they agree with the protesters.

1990 157 thousand in Uni.
2010 480 thousand in Uni.
The country can not afford to send everyone off to uni, especially when at least half of them are studying mickey mouse or completely pointless courses out of self interest/hobby rather then to apply for a job in the field.

[LaWeaselMys]

Trying to get out when you are trapped in a tightly packed confined space is totally natural and not the same as mindless vandalism.

[LaWeaselMys]

I don't know much about the poll tax riots, but I was under the impression that most of the public agreed that they were a terribible idea and supported protest? Happy to be corrected.

[takethatlady]

I don't think they're not students because they're violent.

I think demonising all students because a small minority have caused problems is ridiculous. I would think the same if it was any other kind of protest, and even if I disagreed.

Clearly, as other posters have said, it is more than likely that some of the violent protesters were students. Being a student doesn't mean you get some sort of peace badge.

But it is also likely that - as at many other protests, ones with which I have both agreed and disagreed - people with an interest in committing violence and who were not in any way interested in the actual protest went along to cause trouble. Or, as OP said, people who aren't fans of football going to football matches and committing hooliganism. Also, as I said before, there were academics, parents and teachers on the march - perhaps it was them? Why does it have to have been 'students'? It's nothing to do with class.

[QuickLookBusySanta]

I know this is irrelevant and maybe rather flippant, but I do wish these rioters, whoever they are, had been around to protest against the Iraq war. Maybe Blair would have listened to that, rather than ignoring a million peaceful protesters.

I really think some have relished the opportunity to riot against the tories, when actually the labour govt did some truly awful things.

[Ryoko]

Blair wouldn't have listened unless they went round and smashed up all his over priced houses

[LaWeaselMys]

I was thinking about the Iraq protests earlier.

In the end, neither protest has achieved anything.

We have the right to protest but government has no intention of listening. Right to vote for policies but government has no intention of following through.

It's all a hugely frustrating puppet show.

[headfairy]

ryoko, I do actually agree with some of the things you're saying... I agree that quite a lot of the violence was done by students, as was quite a lot done by those hijacking the demo. I also agree that too many people go to university.

Part of it is of course that there are no manual industries any more in this country, so those who may have gone to work in those industries are now doing degrees to get in to jobs that previously didn't need a degree. It's pretty much the standard entry requirement for any job these days. I may be wrong but I think that only shows the failings of the secondary education system if employers don't think it's sufficient enough. It's much the same as the US now in that you really need to get a degree to get anything beyond the most simple jobs.

Now if the government could promise to ringfence some of that money and spend it on secondary education... but we know what this government is like about promises...

[ToysRLuv]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the steep rise in people in University education is largely due to polys becoming unis. Have the fees risen together with the new titles, I don't know. But, anyway, there has not been a drastic change in the situation..

[takethatlady]

I think that's a big part of it toys but there were also a lot of new universities created in 1992.

[granted]

I think the chances of the media releasing data on how many of the violent proptesters were students rather than violent anarchists is about as likely as the police locking up the policeman who has left one (peaceful) student with brain injuries after yesterday's march.

I'd like to see all the aggressive violent thugs, both 'protesters' and police, locked up. Preferably together, so they can happily kick the shit out of each other till kingdom come, so normal, genuine protesters can exercise their democratic rights to peacefully protest, and normal police, who actually view their role as protecting the public rather than attacking them, can get on with their business unmolested by thugs and nutters.

[granted]

And ketling should be banned - (a) it is surely illegal to imprison people behaving legally and peacefully against their will, (b) it is dangerous and (c) it blatantly doesn't work, anyway.

[headfairy]

granted, I think you're wrong there. If anyone is charged and it is covered in media (all depends on the stories that day, there could be a major breaking story after all in which case this would not really make it) then I think if details are released by the courts about those that are charged then they may well be included in media coverage. ie Dave, 22 and a student at Fulchester College appeared in court today charged with affray etc etc.....

[granted]

Should add - Ryoko - bet George Osborne loves you.

You are in object lesson in how to do divide-and-rule.

Get all the little people arguing about the scraps thrown out to them, whilst the bankers (rhyming slang) laugh all the way to the...bank.

[granted]

I don't think, unlike last time, when there was a clear case that caught the headlines with the fire extinguisher, that there is any one major case this time.

x arrested for throwing paint, y arrested for writing a naughty word on a statue - it's not really exciting enough for anyone to care, is it?

Maybe I'm wrong, maybe they'll parade a whole line-up of them in the Daily Mail, as sort of national hate figures or something.

Interesting that Daily Mail last night was pretty split - at least as amany supported the students as didn't - despite the pictures. And the BBC has included lots of interviews with people injured and attacked by police in today's news - I think people realise it's not just one way.

[granted]

That was to headfairy.

[headfairy]

It depends granted, they might be charged with offences we haven't heard about, there were a lot of evidence collection officers out there yesterday, and although there were a lot of television crews out they couldn't be everywhere. it also depends if we get a repeat of the violence at the next demo. Also depends if it happens on a quiet news day in which case it might get more coverage.

[headfairy]

granted, if you're in London, BBC London are profiling some of the protesters on their programme now.

[lucky1979]

Well, turns out the guy hanging off the cenotaph in the photos was the son of one of Pink Floyd, and is definitely a student (albeit a very well off one).

[headfairy]

and he did say he'd got "caught up in the emotion of the day" which is exactly what I said earlier... I think quite a lot of what happened yesterday was young naive people being caught up in the excitement and doing stupid things (like ripping flags off the cenotaph)