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AIBU?

To think that just because it was a student protest, it doesn't follow that the violent thugs in masks were students?

105 replies

LaWeaselMys · 10/12/2010 10:58

Four of the people arrested were arrested for burglary -surely it is obvious that they were there for their own agenda? And took advantage of the students protesting as cover for their own actions?

They were wearing masks. Clearly didn't want to be identified. Peaceful student protestors were not.

The people attacking the royal car weren't yelling about student fees, neither the people that tried to break into the treasury.

There are no figures yet for how many of those arrested were actually students.

So before everyone jumps on the charge students more if they're going to vandalise things bandwagon. Can we have some acknowledgment of the fact that we've got no idea how many students were even involved.

OP posts:

Report

LaWeaselMys · 10/12/2010 12:04

That's fine take you came back to the point!

You argue very well too.

OP posts:

expatinscotland · 10/12/2010 12:07

You simply cannot have a large gathering of any sort without police coverage, for many, many reasons.

Large crowds have to be managed or you get the German Love Parade, so yes, sometimes they have to be herded along and if they don't move voluntarily they have to be shifted about.

This happens all the time.

Alibabaandthe40nappies · 10/12/2010 12:11

I think one of the problems is what the NUS leaders are saying - Porter and Solomon etc.

They could be very strong in condemning the violence, distancing the peaceful protesters from it and acknowledging that they don't have the control to prevent other people entering the protests.

Instead everything I have seen from them is trying to lay the blame for any violence at the door of the police, which isn't doing them any favours in making them look credible. They just look like childish fools trying to pretend to be grownups.

takethatlady · 10/12/2010 12:12

Right, wait a minute, I just want to be clear.

I am talking about news coverage being unrepresentative of the facts, not police coverage.

I 100% agree there need to be police there, and think quicklook's point about them being stuck between a rock and a hard place is really interesting and probably, to an extent, true. One of my complaints was that in the first march there was NO police presence for much of the day and in many of the areas. But what I have documented here is not just herding of an ordinary nature. It is unprovoked violence by police on bystanders and nonviolent protesters at points in the day when nothing bad had happened. It is shutting down routes without warning that have been previously agreed between protesters and police, and then accusing protesters of going off the agreed route (when they were FORCED to!). If the authorities incite violence then they can't be surprised when they get it.

I have no sympathy for violence either, by the way, but I think the media coverage of that violence has been one-sided and exaggerated, and deliberately tried to sidetrack the issue.

And has assumed that it was 'students' when, as OP points out, it may not have been.

LaWeaselMys · 10/12/2010 12:15

The NUS leaders are rubbish, no doubt about that!

But most students have no involvement with the NUS at all, outside of signing up to get their discount card.

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takethatlady · 10/12/2010 12:19

Yes, that guy on Question Time last night was particularly rubbish. At one point the whole panel was telling him he could 'do better than that' with one of his replies

Asteria · 10/12/2010 12:22

I did the Countryside Alliance marches when I was living in London and only ever felt intimidated by the bystanders - some of whom threw bricks into the crowd.
My point being that there are people out there who make it their mission to cause problems, be it in the street after closing time or at a public demostration.
We are always going to be faced with propaganda and sensationalisation in the press - be it for selling stories or something more political. Some organisations actually pay people to incite violence/unrest at otherwise peaceful protests.
I would be very interested to read the statistics on those arrested - if they are ever released, which is very unlikely.

Deliaskis · 10/12/2010 12:28

Agree with Weasel & AliBaba, Clare Solomon is a disgrace, and despite the fact that I'm not totally against the new fee/loan system, I do feel sorry for the people who she claims to represent, as she seems to be unable to speak intelligently and credibly about this issue. She seems to just be a rabble rouser, and I for one, suspect (and hope) our student body are on the whole more intelligent than that.

D

QuickLookBusySanta · 10/12/2010 12:29

have just looked at some of the photos on the DM website of the protests. There are some of people vandalising war memorials Why??
Police horses covered in paint, students looking petrified. It all looks so awful.

But I really dont know what the answer is to it all, so that genuine people can demonstrate peacfully.

Ryoko · 10/12/2010 12:40

Students, previous student, supporter whats the difference, they all where there for the cause and they are all blinkered, selfish egotistical idiots.

I know someone who was there, he ain't a uni student but he used to be so was showing support, where do you (the OP) draw the line about who counts as a protester?.

LaWeaselMys · 10/12/2010 12:47

There were lots of non-students, gradutes, lectures, academics etc there to protest peacefully about student fees and education related issues.

People in masks who attack buildings are nit peaceful protestors and we don't know if they were students or not - but students are being blamed!

It's totally unacceptable to demonise peaceful protestors like this.

There were violent people, evidence suggests that most of the violent people (particularly those hiding their faces) were not part of the protest. They weren't even chanting about education related things.

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takethatlady · 10/12/2010 12:49

quicklook it's a disgrace that some people have done that. I just feel the only answer is to arrest those people, make sure they face justice for what they have done, but to make sure that the actual issues under discussion don't get lost in the process. War memorials in particular - WTF? Ridiculous and stupid.

ryoko - in my book it is also ridiculous to claim that fifty thousand people from all walks of life are 'selfish, stupid, egotistical idiots'. People who vandalise war memorials are deserving of that name but peaceful protesters - no matter whether you agree with the issues or not - are not. Most of these people are campaigning against cuts and fees that won't directly affect them at all, for a start.

nightmarebeforechristmas · 10/12/2010 12:50

but how do you know they wern't students???

Thingumy · 10/12/2010 12:52

it's clear the people behind the masks were not students nightmare

headfairy · 10/12/2010 12:52

takethat... sorry just catching up. I actually cut the piece on the 10 o'clock news last night and included in all that was everything you've mentioned earlier. the fact that the police blocked the organised route, the fact that the police were kettling, and we showed plenty of the police's rough tactics as well as some of the violence by the protesters.

Thingumy · 10/12/2010 12:54

the student pissing on the memorial didn't have a mask on and neither was the girl climbing up the cenotaph...

Sakura · 10/12/2010 12:54

of course they weren't students, they were the condem's moles, and I'm not being sarcastic.

Any evolved society values education for its own sake, and would provide free secondary education for its young, as opposed to bankers bonuses, illegal wars and stealing money from poor women to line the pockets of rich men

scurryfunge · 10/12/2010 12:56

OP, what makes you think that getting arrested for burglary means they had their own agenda and were not students?

nightmarebeforechristmas · 10/12/2010 12:56

Thingumy How?
how do you know??

nightmarebeforechristmas · 10/12/2010 12:57

Sakura we do have free secondary education

Sakura · 10/12/2010 12:57

lol, tertiary education

Thingumy · 10/12/2010 12:59

I don't nightmare

No one know who was a student and who was a 'thug',I'm laughing at the fact the OP obviously thinks all the violence and destruction had to be caused by masked thugs and all students present were innocent.

Bullshit.

LaWeaselMys · 10/12/2010 13:01

nightmare nobody knows exactly who they were. We will have some information if any of the arrested people are charged (none yet).

If anyone is going to claim masked students were violent - THEY have to prove that the people in masks were students. They can't because there is no evidence yet that this is true.

No one seems that bothered about fact checking at the moment though.

Headfairy - it's a shame when there are lots of people out there with balanced and fair intentions, that come the morning and the news summaries, all the attention was on the car attack.

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Thingumy · 10/12/2010 13:02

can't see any masked yoofs here

takethatlady · 10/12/2010 13:03

Thanks headfairy - I didn't see that and it's good to know it did get covered in some places. A lot of what I have seen has not included that information or been as balanced as that ... but I shouldn't have suggested that there has been no good mainstream coverage.

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