To think that just because it was a student protest, it doesn't follow that the violent thugs in masks were students?

[LaWeaselMys]

Four of the people arrested were arrested for burglary -surely it is obvious that they were there for their own agenda? And took advantage of the students protesting as cover for their own actions?

They were wearing masks. Clearly didn't want to be identified. Peaceful student protestors were not.

The people attacking the royal car weren't yelling about student fees, neither the people that tried to break into the treasury.

There are no figures yet for how many of those arrested were actually students.

So before everyone jumps on the charge students more if they're going to vandalise things bandwagon. Can we have some acknowledgment of the fact that we've got no idea how many students were even involved.

[LaWeaselMys]

I don't think all the students are innocent. They obviously aren't.

But I have the (apparently novel) attitude that I want evidence for stories before they are printed.

[domeafavour]

i wish everyone thought that.
a tiny majority of non-students out to make trouble.
Of course there were some students making trouble, but I bet they were encouraged by the "thugs". Maybe not encouraged but inspired.
small minority anyway, but very sorry it went wrong

[scurryfunge]

OP, what makes you think that getting arrested for burglary means they had their own agenda and were not students?

[takethatlady]

thingumy no but those people are pushing down a barrier (and considering we know that some of the barriers were unfairly erected, that's not surprising tbh) - not committing acts of violence etc.

[LaWeaselMys]

Big you are going out for the day to protest about an issue you really care about would you take 20mins out to nick some stuff or would you get on with what you are there for and try and get your voice heard?

[headfairy]

we even had students singing christmas carols while be kettled to show some balance and contrast to the violence.

[RockinRobinBird]

Exactly. It was essentially a student demo. So unless you know otherwise, why would you assume that the trouble makers were not students. Now I'm not saying they all were, just that you can't say they weren't just because all students are fluffy harmless creatures. Maybe some of them aren't?

[scurryfunge]

LaWease, burglary doesn't mean just stealing stuff - it covers entering a building to cause damage too. That is why they were nicked for burglary, I suspect.

[foxinsocks]

lol

I bet they were students

like the one who threw that fire extinguisher from a roof. He was a student innit.

[Thingumy]

pushing a barrier down may not be violent but it's destructive and imo generally incites further destructive behaviour.

[LaWeaselMys]

It's like football hooliganism. Very few of the people getting violent over football matches were really 'fans'.

People can turn up at any demonstration they like, cause chaos and say they were doing it for the cause doesn't make them part of the group protesting.

This is basic logic.

[Ryoko]

I have no sympathy at all for any of them I think they are selfish, egotistical idiots.

Here is why, (I've said it before and I'll say it again).
1: Why should the tax payer foot the bill for someone else to go to university, when university increases the earning potential of the students, you want to go to uni, so you get paid more then pay for it yourself.

2: where was all the students when benefits where being cut for the unemployed, working families, disabled and cares, and the social housing system destroyed, leaving the poor in the hands of private landlords, where was the sympathy then, why where they not marching in solidarity like they would have done 20 years ago before they all turned selfish.

3: why should one section of society be left untouched by the cuts because they "might" amount to something in the future, yet another part of society suffer massive cuts because they "might" never get anywhere?.

4: Benefits cut, social housing cut, job losses, why should we affected by all this be happy to pay for them to go to optional higher education, while we are struggling, in ten years time those people will be calling those of us who find ourselves unemployed in the future and paid for their education now, feckless scroungers and calling for our heads from nice houses with gardens and cars parked outside em.

Shit happens, live with it, grow up and stop acting like little spoiled brats, unless you want a US style system where you pay the whole lot up front, shut up and sit down.

[headfairy]

I've watched the barrier pushing incidents, I think that was what judges call "youthful exhuberance" to be honest. I wouldn't call that terribly violent. What was violence was the breeze blocks being thrown at the police.

I know we're talking about the coverage rather than the demo itself, but I do think the police need to rethink kettling as an option. Seems to really ramp things up. At each kettle blockade there was a flare up of violence as people tried to break through.

[Sakura]

no, it sounds to me that the police were looking to cause more trouble than the students
Those students were pushing down a barrier which had erected especially in order to try and quash and contain the protest [and we're supposed to be a democracy]

But hey, it's great news for the Condems because now they can say "See, see , and you expect us to fund the education of these thugs"

The violence was caused by moles, it always is

[headfairy]

ryoko, university education benefits not just the graduate you know. Do you go to the doctors? Do you ever use a lawyer? These people have to be educated somehow, you can't be a doctor with just GCSEs and A levels.

I would much much much rather see trident scrapped than the next generation.

[foxinsocks]

I don't see why it really matters. Some of them will be students, and some of them might not. And that's it really. I'm sure most people realise that.

As the protests were labelled as a 'student demo' I don't think the news channels should have to state before every broadcast that some of the people causing violence, may not have been students otherwise every broadcast would be very long.

[Thingumy]

youthful exhuberance?

I'll be sure to use that if my daughter should ever feel the need to damage something in public place.

[LaWeaselMys]

Not agreeing with someone's argument doesn't give you the right to blame all of them for violence there is no evidence they comitted.

[headfairy]

thingumy, I did have my tongue ever so slightly in my cheek. Yes it was damaging public property but it wasn't the worst by a long chalk.

[Thingumy]

some interesting tweets on here

[Sakura]

"Shit happens"

Have a cartoon , Ryoko

Or Two

and another

[Ryoko]

Considering how much Doctors and Lawyers benefit from the education they get via massive pay of over 50k a year, any idiot who decides not to attend University doing a medical degree because of the changes and thinks it better to not bother and go get a normal job paying 10k-30k a year is a fucking moron anyway.

The average university graduate earns over 100k more then someone who never went, over the course of their working live.

And it's better for poor students anyway, start paying back at 21k instead of 15k, paying back at the same starting rate as you do currently and not having to pay if your income drops back below 21k.

[takethatlady]

Well said laweasel.

Also, the students aren't saying they won't contribute anything to the cost of their educations, or saying that the other cuts don't matter. If people want marches for working families, benefits, and so on, they can have them. It doesn't mean they do or don't care about the other issues.

Students are angry that a pledge which won their votes on the basis that the LibDems would not sanction an increase in fees has been broken, that the extent and scale of the fees is asking far too much of students and jeopardising the future of UK universities, on which all our prosperity depends.

For what it's worth, I think all the cuts are as much ideological as they are practical, and that many of the cuts to benefits are utterly disgraceful too. You can't have a go at students for marching about higher education because they're NOT marching about the issues you care about!

[ToysRLuv]

My husband has been in several demonstrations in his life (he is also an academic) and needless to say, he is a peaceful demonstrator. In each of the demonstrations he has participated in he has noticed a minority of 'thugs' who then try to 'highjack' the demo. They are always the same people regardless of the cause (so, in this case probably not students), and they think it's the Russian revolution (at least used to be lots of Socialists for some reason). Now there is probably an additional group of troublemakers releasing steam on the police without a real fear of arrest. What a terrible thing for students and academics to be likened to these people. Although, thought some of the police actions also provoked the crowd..

[Sakura]

lol, ignore the last link