to think the housepricecrash forum...

[DuelingFanjo]

should have better things to do with their time than to slag off mumsnet.

they seem to have a reall issue with people on here which is just sad.

[DeadPoncy]

Oh, thanks!

[HPCer]

Quattrocento

Sorry your arguments fall apart when you look outside the British Isles.
Would you like a link to the property/economy bubble in the Republic of Ireland.

[Islandlady]

I for one refuse let to the the housepricecrash lot make me feel guilty or greedy for selling my London flat for a lot more than I paid for it.

We bought in the 80s when my wages were £3,000 pa we had to save for years to get a deposit as we could only get a mortgage at 1 1/2 times our combined salaries, in the 90s we were both made redundant several times and at one time we were both made redundant within weeks of each other,and nearly lost our home

When we put the flat on the market the back end of last year, we were not greedy or delusional when we set out the price we wanted, it was the same price as the flat two doors down went for a month before, and like that flat ours was sold within 4 days to a FTB, since we sold ours two others went up for sale at the same price, all went within a week all to FTBs - it was the market value and looking on Rightmove at the same area it still is and they seem to be selling

Yes we were able to buy a house on the Island with the proceeds (well half the proceeds ) from the flat sale, but I see this as a fair reward for the years of struggling and going without to keep our flat.

[safetalk]

I thought the 'shortage' of property was a myth put about by new housebuilders in order to get gov to 'force' LA to free up green belt land?

[Quattrocento]

No, there is a real issue about shortage of homes in the UK. Here's just one link expressing parliamentary concerns

Of course the housebuilders haven't helped by building 1 and 2 bedroom flats in city centres where flat-dwelling is not (or perhaps not yet) the norm and where few people want to buy. So I take the point on checking the micro-economies

The point on the housing bubble in the ROI is just fatuous. I was careful to direct my comments to the UK situation and not the Republic of Ireland. Totally different position. It's also different in the South-East of France, where people always want to buy. Location matters.

[HPCer]

Islandlady I have no wish for you to feel guilty or greedy.

My back ground Home owner not a mortgage owner. I was also lucky to be able to purchase a property in the eighties and went through the same economy cycles as you.
I look back at my first home today and realise I would not be able to afford that home with the same percentage deposit and the income I am on today.

The sooner we return to a property being a shelter for a family rather than an investment the better.
Good luck with Island living.

[HPCer]

Thanks for the link from the VI groups
You could also look at this link on empty homes
www.emptyhomes.com/usefulresources/stats/2009breakdown.htm
Also plenty of land we can build on. Not sure on todays percentages,I believe we are only in single figures (need confirming)on actual land built on.

[safetalk]

Not sure there is a real issue about shortage
there were no references for that link and it didn't really say where it had come from

don't housebuilders have a 15 yr landbank up their sleeves?

you can see in the paper for all to read prices are falling so they cut building rates..... supply and demand

but not the way we mean it

surely if there was an issue the streets would be full of homeless families/people
clearly there are lots of homeless people but I tend to think they are there for other reasons (drugs alcoholism MH issues etc) not because there is no physical roof to go over thier head

[Quattrocento]

The link was from UK.gov site, with substantial House of Commons research references cited if you clicked further

The danger in believing all that Housepricecrash stuff is that you hang around in rented accommodation, waiting for a house price crash that isn't going to happen, and thereby missing your place on the housing ladder. We're in the middle of the worst recession since the thirties, huge issues over liquidity, masses of people losing their jobs and house prices have fallen since 2007 overall, but only slightly, and in fact have risen in parts of the country.

But you know, you can believe what you want to believe. I think that HPC forum wants to believe believes that the sky will fall in during 2015. Go with that.

[AlpinePony]

Quattro - does your argument hold true for Japan? A country which has been experiencing deflationary pressures for 2 decades now - or, is Japan a different type of land mass and population to the UK?

I think a lot of them on HPC are nuts (hence my tuna comments a la Dr. Bubb ) - however , I learned an awful lot and through that site got up the nerve to sell my house in spring/summer 2008 before shtf in the country I was living in. In fact, I signed the documents to sell in July and the banks in that given country had their wobbles in August - my buyers were none too happy by the time we signed for the final time in October. Without that site I'd probably be living in negative equity. I made a mistake and bought the wrong house at the wrong time in the wrong place - still, got away with it by the skin of my teeth!

It's a great site for being ahead of the curve wrt political feeling/economic reality and I've learned tons there - e.g., the truth and context from which Margaret Thatcher's "there's no such thing as society" came - something which lefties trot out 25 years on and don't understand its origins.

[Islandlady]

I dont think the majority of home owners (mortgage payers) see their properties as solely an investment

When I bought my flat in London it was only a few miles from where I was born and grew up, me and DH worked in London our families lived in London, London was our home and so was our flat, when we bought it we were not rubbing our hands with glee at the thought of the megabucks we would get for it in 25 years time, in fact we didnt even realise at the time how much property would go up - I dont think many people did, we fully intended to go on living there until we were too old to climb the stairs.

However circumstances change as they do for many people and in the end moving from London was the right thing for us, yes having a large equity helped us but was not the sole reason for moving

[BeenBeta]

As a long time veteran poster on both HPC before MN I find a lot of crossover in the concerns that people express on both forums. Fundamentally, both forums are about security for our families and concerns about the future of a debt laden and economically constrained society.

I find both interetsing in different ways. The forums have more in common than you might think. Incidentally I think MNHQ might want to go and look at HPC as it has technical features that would be good here.

[DeadPoncy]

leanto, thanks for bringing up the privacy issue - it's a bee in my bonnet, too, and something not enough people are concerned about.

If anyone is thinking of taking up the sarcastic "invitation" to start trolling the lone parents and abused on MN, we will come and flame those rented bedsits you at home! We are all real people here, and since MN covers many more personal issues than just one's economic wellbeing, it is a bit more personal than HPC. Posters on this board so far have sounded fair-minded and generous, but I do hope everyone respects this one point.

[TethHearseEnd]

This is the most sensible (and, frankly, boring) invasion ever.

I'm simultaneously impressed and disappointed.

[SkintHeather]

When thinking about HPC one needs to bear in mind that there is a difference between the message of the forum and the type of people who now post there.

The points made by posters on the forum about an asset bubble and the reasons for it were accurate. But as this has played out over such a long time, all the decent posters have moved on from the forum for various reasons. After learning about the subject there's only so much that you can chat about it before the subject becomes exhausted. This has led to a filtering effect where only the misogynistic and racist tin foil hat nutters remain. These are not the same posters who were there at the start of the forum and who were making intelligent comments.

The 'nutcase' posters feel superior about having some kind of special insight, yet most of them weren't the ones who actually figured it out. They don't understand that just believing the opposite of what everyone else believes won't provide the right answer. You also need to recognise when the majority of people are mistaken. There is more to being a contrarian than calling everyone else that doesn't agree with you 'sheeple'.

In the end, the forum has become a sad shadow of what it once was. A place for the angry and dispossessed to rant at the world and the system that keeps them down.

So what's the future for HPC? The crash is in the final stage where things are turning scary for everyone. It's becoming plain for all to see. Then there will be the long drawn out stagnation of the housing market and the economy where no one even considers buying unless they want to live in the house. The subject of the house price crash will become irrelevant and the remit for the forum will be over. If they couldn't keep their decent posters while the crash was actually taking place because things move so slowly, they certainly won't keep them during this phase.

All that is left to the forum is to try and reposition itself as some contrarian economics forum. Unfortunately they no longer have the quality posters to achieve this.

[Northite]

So you think HPC has an unsustainable future?

[NurseBubba]

Certainly seems unsustainable to me, lots of the best posters have left and gone to elsewhere, the gems posted on their mumsnet thread today:

Is it jam rag week on Mumsnet or something? Bunch of whining harpies the lot of them.

No disrespect, but Mumsnet just flags up the general stupidity of women.

I often print out pages from mumsnet incase I run low on toilet paper.

Get over yourselves ladies.

It is a documented fact that bearing a child can reduce your mental capacity, the energy and resources required to grow a baby genuinely causes the brain to shrink. Couple that with then being stuck at home coo cooing to a baby plus a diet of daytime TV and you can see why Mumsnetters might not get on with HPC.

[mamatomany]

I think that HPC forum wants to believe believes that the sky will fall in during 2015.

They been changing the date from 2005, 2007, 2010 I believe it's now quarter 3 of 2012 due to the double dip.
The point is there will be a point that we will look back on and see was the crash of 20XX and everyone will miss it, that's the way markets, stock and housing work. It's why it's basically gambling, luck with some skill but mostly luck.

[Libspero]

As a reasonably long standing poster on the HPC forum I have read this thread with some interest and amusement.

We are really not as bad as you might think!

I would invite all of you to take a look at the main forum and gauge sentiment for yourselves. We are not at all kissy/feely (quite the opposite), but there is usually plenty of interesting discussion and topical debate.

We are a bit cheeky, but we honestly don't sit around discussing mums nutters all day

Peace and love

[Quattrocento]

I did think about joining in the debate on HPC following this post

"An old school personnel manager for a medium sized company I once knew told me that his hiring policy was 'to stay clear of the three Ws - wogs, women and woofters - like the plague.' Maybe that should have been wogs, women and wheelchairs!"

Then I realised there really wouldn't be any point. No point at all. Seriously, this sort of poison really is at the boundaries of legality and beyond the boundaries of morality, surely.

[DuelingFanjo]

Libspero, even though most of you might not be as bad... what do you think of the few who really let you down with their misogynistic women bashing?

[Quattrocento]

Have you looked through that site, DF? I think you're being a bit generous. The majority of posts seem to be to be bigoted and very very angry. I imagine the average poster to be either a member of Fathers for Justice or the BNP. Or quite possibly both. Knuckles dragging along the floor as they walk.

With the exception of the joke about the tuna, it was pretty humourless too.

[Libspero]

Dueling Fanjo,

I would like to think we are a broad church.

From what I have seen we aim to educate rather than exclude. If you just tell people their views are 'illegal and not to be discussed' it just encourages resentment and further division.

The post about 'wogs women and wheelchairs" for example was (I'm pretty sure) in jest at the comment here that there are many racists/disablists (is that even a word/thing?!?). If anyone takes offence or complains the post will be duly removed, although on the whole we try as a community to be tolerant of everybody's views.

Regarding woman/man "bashing". It happens.
As long as it is in good humour it doesn't offend me to be honest.

I find it hard to believe there isn't plenty of husband/man bashing here.. I expect we are two sides of the same coin. :)

[NurseBubba]

"on the whole we try as a community to be tolerant of everybody's views."

!!!!!

of course you do!

impressed you managed to say that with a straight face, congrats.

"Regarding woman/man "bashing". It happens.
As long as it is in good humour it doesn't offend me to be honest."

It's not just woman bashing, there's a good sprinking racism and hatred of the working class and anything approaching mildly left wing thinking mixed in there too, the sheer level of misanthropy occuring there needs to be seen to be believed. Have a quick look around and you'll see I'm not exaggerating. It's an extremely depressing place to be, one long miserable confirmation bias group think circle jerk. Have a quick look at the 11 page thread on the front page now, ripping apart a pretty innocuous mumsnet poster's thread; she gets told she should have kept her legs together and must be ugly etc etc etc. Cretinous.

btw there's another gem to be added to yet another Mumsnet thread on their front page (the latest one)

"Maybe there are some women with half a brain you mean? Unlikely in my experience."