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AIBU?

to want to see more openess about about wages and salaries

65 replies

GabbyLoggon · 30/09/2010 10:58

I heard a programme on salaries on BBC Radio 4.

It became clear it was a total taboo subject.
Everyone asked was running scared of the subject.

It must be because there is so much iequality over pay for similar work.

I was talking to a broadcaster who said there were people doing similar work getting six times more dosh than others on the same programme

HENCE THE WALL OF SILENCE

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GabbyLoggon · 01/10/2010 10:59

just to point out theobvious presentes on tv always get top wack wosses camera bloke was not on 6m also ont approve of the highly paid having 2 or3 other jobs. The beeb allows this and also MPs

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GabbyLoggon · 02/10/2010 10:39

ShirleyKnot greetings. What good taste you have.

Better day in the Midlands today.

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GabbyLoggon · 02/10/2010 10:40

ShirleyKnot greetings. What good taste you have.

Better day in the Midlands today.

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GabbyLoggon · 02/10/2010 10:40

ShirleyKnot greetings. What good taste you have.

Better day in the Midlands today.

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GabbyLoggon · 02/10/2010 10:40

ShirleyKnot greetings. What good taste you have.

Better day in the Midlands today.

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GabbyLoggon · 02/10/2010 10:41

ShirleyKnot greetings. What good taste you have.

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GabbyLoggon · 02/10/2010 10:41

ShirleyKnot greetings. What good taste you have.

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GabbyLoggon · 02/10/2010 10:41

ShirleyKnot greetings. What good taste you have.

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GabbyLoggon · 02/10/2010 10:42

greetings shirleyknot

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GabbyLoggon · 02/10/2010 10:43

sunny days are her again

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BeenBeta · 02/10/2010 11:07

ByThePowerOf/Getorf - have hit on a very important issue.

People who are long term loyal employees of a firm will tend to end up beng paid less than new people coming in.

Threatening to leave is the only sure way of getting a pay rise IME. Women I suspect suffer most form this prolem where they need a flexible working arrangement for childcare. Threatening to leave is much much harder for women who have negotiated part time or flexile working arrangements and firms know and exploit this. It is not the whole explanation of why women get paid less than men in the same job but it is part of it. The other reason is pure old fashioned discrimination.

I do think that pay should be disclosed. Directors on company boards have to disclose their pay and we know what minimum wage is set by law so I do not see why we cannot have a law that says firms have to disclose what everyone is paid.

It is in my view the major reason why women are still paid less than men. In fact, if women knew for sure what their male colleagues were being paid many would be very shocked to find that they were being paid far less. Many more discrimination cases would follow. Firms have fought tooth and nail to keep pay secret over the years even though full pay audits and open disclosure has often been mooted over the years. Most women simply do not know how badly underpaid they are compared to male colleagues and pay secrecy allows that to continue.

This is especially the case in industries with very high discretionary bonus elements to pay such as The City. Mostly basic pay is equal and the level is fairly well known in The City. However, it is bonus that is still a secret and often backed up by strict contractual obligations not to reveal it. Indeed, some City firms have sought and successfully been granted court orders to prevent employees disclosing their pay and bonus.

It is also the case that lower paid unionised female workers have also suffered from pay secrecy and I might add that has happened in the past with the full agreement of unions during pay negotiations. It is now clear that unions and firms have in the past agreed to raise male pay but keep female workers pay lower as trade off. If pay had been made public this could not have happened.

It would be major step forward if the Coalition were to enact a law that stated all workers pay had to be revealed and I hope Labour would support that. After all we know MPs pay and expenses now so why not everyone else?

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Prinnie · 02/10/2010 12:40

People get themselves so wound up over money. Learn to enjoy the important things in life and then it won't matter so much!

I earn 31K btw. And yes, that's a lot but I'm so in tune with what's important in life that I spend very little of it. I couldn't care less whether anyone else at my level are being paid more or less.

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tethersend · 02/10/2010 12:53

Did you see that, Shirley?

Nine greetings.

Nine.

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brassband · 02/10/2010 13:44

If you tell people how much you earn then if they earn less they feel bitter and resentful, and if they earn more they feel superior

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ShirleyKnot · 02/10/2010 14:01

Hello GL!

Hello Tethers!

Hello everyone

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ornamentalcabbage · 02/10/2010 14:21

It's not just the salary but the benefits package. My current salary is low but the benefits (decent company pension, share schemes, bonus, etc) are very valuable. More openess is a good thing, but it's not always easy to compare from company to company what people are paid. I know this from the days when I worked for a multinational and was trying to decide what salary to ask for if I moved to another (privately owned) company.

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SeaTrek · 02/10/2010 14:48

Exactly ornamentalcabbage.

I am a teacher so my salary is pretty easy to work out. It is also completely in the public domain and standardised so not much of a secret!

My husband on the other hand has benefits and bonuses that at times are greater than his annual salary. Standard bonus is 20% of annual salary (range so far has been 0% to 30% depending on how the company performs), he also has share options, £500/mth car allowance and has been given windfall shares (subject to company performance over a set time) that may be worth nothing to several times his annual salary. He is also based from home so ALL travel can be claimed for and he works at home approx 3 days a week, therefore no commuting time. He was headhunted for a job fairly recently that was an increase in pay more than my fulltime annual salary but with benefits were factored in it really wasn't as good a deal as he has now.

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Tigerbomb · 02/10/2010 15:25

I don't feel my salary is anyone's business but my own. I am happy with it.

Knowledge of other peoples salaries will bring bitterness and resentment, coming from either yourself or your colleagues

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happiestblonde · 02/10/2010 15:47

I know I'm earning atleast £4k more on my basic than the 2 men who were taken on at the same time as me simply because I asked for it and am better It is entirely downt to yourself to ensure you are earning what you deserve.

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deliciousdevilwoman · 02/10/2010 16:53

I don't tell anyone what I earn. None of their fucking business IMHO! I am a temp working through a limited company and I am aware from payscales for permanant staff-(which I researched when I fleetingly thought about applying for a permanant contract) in comparative managerial positions, that I make 20K+ more p.a.

I don't talk about money, and I "rise above" the grumbling of disaffected staff who have a pop about locums and the money local authorities shell out on them-sometimes within my earshot. My industry (social work) has a high staff turnover and I don't feel in the least guilty re my earning power. Even with the constraints imposed by managed services, I still negotiate my rates. It's all relative-my temp status affords me greater flexibility and renumeration, but the downside is no sickness, holiday or maternity pay, alongside the potential for instability if a contract is not renewed, etc.

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nickelbabe · 02/10/2010 17:36

i can't disclose DH's without his permission.

I don't have any problems with disclosing my own, though.
At the moment I am earning about -£400 per month.
That's because I'm self-employed and in a recession....

I have no takehome pay and I take nothing out of my business at the moment.

Thankfully, my DH pays for everything.

Roll on profit....

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Kaloki · 02/10/2010 18:22

I got threatened with dismissal after discovering that the Saturday staff were paid more than me per hour, as was a part timer, despite me being in a supervisor role.

I'm glad that jobs now can't sack you for discussing pay with other staff members.

All of you saying that you don't want to know others salaries, that's great if you are on a decent salary. But if you are with a company that are refusing to up your wages while expecting you to do more work it helps to have something to come back at them with.

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Kaloki · 02/10/2010 18:26

"It is entirely downt to yourself to ensure you are earning what you deserv"

It's not always that easy, I actually had my employer try and fob me off by saying I was being paid above average, when I was being paid less than people doing half as much as me. Then when I tried to bring up the subject of unfair pay I was threatened with dismissal, because I'd talked about it.

If all employers were fair and paid staff what they earnt it wouldn't be a problem, but the pay silence is there so that employers can get away with paying people below their worth.

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nancydrewrocked · 02/10/2010 18:33

I don't see that it is anyone's business what I earn and I wouldn't have been prepared to discuss it with either my fellow employees or friends/family when I was working.

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BeenBeta · 02/10/2010 19:37

kaloki - your experience is exactly why employers like to keep pay secret. That way they can keep everyone in the dark and tell them they are being paid above average and get away with it.

You have unfortunately fallen into the category I mentioned before of being a loyal employee but they have taken advantage of that.

I would look for a different job if I were you and threaten to leave. You a very clearly being underpaid. In fact why on earth dont you just take on a couple of part time jobs. You would be better paid.

IME experience employers only respond to threats. I just would not stay with an employer that lied to me. It is breach of trust and no doubt they woudl sack you in an instant if you lied to them. Indeed lying to an employer about what you were paid at your previous employer can be solid grounds for dismissal.