to want to see more openess about about wages and salaries

[GabbyLoggon]

I heard a programme on salaries on BBC Radio 4.

It became clear it was a total taboo subject.
Everyone asked was running scared of the subject.

It must be because there is so much iequality over pay for similar work.

I was talking to a broadcaster who said there were people doing similar work getting six times more dosh than others on the same programme

HENCE THE WALL OF SILENCE

[GabbyLoggon]

I dont understand how the NINE greetings to Shirley happened.

[RedSuedeShoes]

There is a perception that the people who get paid do not deserve it. OH has a colleague who has the same title and job description but he does 9-5 (the markets open at 8 so sould be in for that), stays off work whenever there is an excuse to, always has his full hour lunch break and a fag break every hour which is up to 20 minutes each time and is a clock watcher. OH on the other hand goes in at 7am and leaves at 8pm and is never off. He does deserve to get paid much more but I doubt the other guy would see this.

So if you think you work as hard and as productively as the person next to you, well maybe you don't!

[stressheaderic]

I'm a teacher. Our pay scales are published online openly, along with how much all the responsibility points are worth. Your salary depends on how many years service you have.
It is fair, open and equal and there have never been any complaints for it to be otherwise.
Why can't other sectors do this?
I would be raging to know that someone doing the same job as me since the same amount of time ago was getting paid more.

[GabbyLoggon]

chandon

good post..true enough

[Chandon]

I find tht people on low pay are happy to discuss their wages, whereas high earners would feel embarassed.

I remember being young and full of confidence and constantly re-negotiating my pay until my manager told me with a sour face she could not raise my salary as I was already earning 3k more than HER.

So it does seem to be down to being confident and pushy, and that is why men are on the whole better at demanding higher salaries, and getting them, I reckon. Men seem to have higher levels of selfworth than women, not sure why?

I cringe when I think how confident I was then! Where did it come from?!

[IslandMoose]

BB - that's scary. I seem to remember getting about the same (whether prosecuting or defending) daily rate for crime when I was at the bar in the early and mid 90s. I'm shocked that rates don't seem to have kept pace with inflation (let alone the rest of the legal industry).

[AbsofCroissant]

I was contemplating this yesterday.

I think in some areas there should be more openness - when I moved jobs, all of a sudden they managed to raise the grade of my old job one notch, and almost double the salary . but, I did manage to negotiate (through the cunning means of massive indecisiveness) a massive-o raise when I moved to a different company, and got promoted anyway, so I wasn't bothered too much. What I did find out (when another person left and they had to replace her) was that despite saying all the time that their hands were tied and they couldn't raise salaries, they mysteriously managed to get sign off for a (within the industry) rather bloated wage for the replacement).

But then, I was reading this article about education in America and that the teachers union is blocking pay-rises for high performing teachers. In those circumstances, I think secrecy around salaries could help. Also, why shouldn't people who are good at their job, particularly something as key as teaching, be better paid than mediocre/crap workers?

[NordicPrincess]

pay should be openly discussed and available for everyone to see.

[GabbyLoggon]

on a public computer this site was blocked. Too rude and sexy Oh yes GL

[blueshoes]

Agree with beenbeta that if you are not happy with your pay, you should just leave (or threaten to leave, if you want to make a go of it at the same company).

I have always stayed too long out of a misplaced sense of loyalty, and also because my children were very young then and did not want to rock the work boat. Now I keep my eyes and ears out and am prepared to jump for the right opportunity and pay.

[Kaloki]

Oh hell yes, though I'm still waiting to hear that the sexist pig of an area manager has fallen foul of the recession. That would be the cherry on top.

[BeenBeta]

Good for you. Picking the right moment was even better.

Revenge is a dish best eaten cold.

[Kaloki]

Oh I left a long time ago. Still bitter though I realised they were taking me for a ride, so I left just when they needed me most

[ornamentalcabbage]

Kaloki that's awful. I hope you can work something out as beenbeta suggests.

[BeenBeta]

kaloki - your experience is exactly why employers like to keep pay secret. That way they can keep everyone in the dark and tell them they are being paid above average and get away with it.

You have unfortunately fallen into the category I mentioned before of being a loyal employee but they have taken advantage of that.

I would look for a different job if I were you and threaten to leave. You a very clearly being underpaid. In fact why on earth dont you just take on a couple of part time jobs. You would be better paid.

IME experience employers only respond to threats. I just would not stay with an employer that lied to me. It is breach of trust and no doubt they woudl sack you in an instant if you lied to them. Indeed lying to an employer about what you were paid at your previous employer can be solid grounds for dismissal.

[nancydrewrocked]

I don't see that it is anyone's business what I earn and I wouldn't have been prepared to discuss it with either my fellow employees or friends/family when I was working.

[Kaloki]

"It is entirely downt to yourself to ensure you are earning what you deserv"

It's not always that easy, I actually had my employer try and fob me off by saying I was being paid above average, when I was being paid less than people doing half as much as me. Then when I tried to bring up the subject of unfair pay I was threatened with dismissal, because I'd talked about it.

If all employers were fair and paid staff what they earnt it wouldn't be a problem, but the pay silence is there so that employers can get away with paying people below their worth.

[Kaloki]

I got threatened with dismissal after discovering that the Saturday staff were paid more than me per hour, as was a part timer, despite me being in a supervisor role.

I'm glad that jobs now can't sack you for discussing pay with other staff members.

All of you saying that you don't want to know others salaries, that's great if you are on a decent salary. But if you are with a company that are refusing to up your wages while expecting you to do more work it helps to have something to come back at them with.

[nickelbabe]

i can't disclose DH's without his permission.

I don't have any problems with disclosing my own, though.
At the moment I am earning about -£400 per month.
That's because I'm self-employed and in a recession....

I have no takehome pay and I take nothing out of my business at the moment.

Thankfully, my DH pays for everything.

Roll on profit....

[deliciousdevilwoman]

I don't tell anyone what I earn. None of their fucking business IMHO! I am a temp working through a limited company and I am aware from payscales for permanant staff-(which I researched when I fleetingly thought about applying for a permanant contract) in comparative managerial positions, that I make 20K+ more p.a.

I don't talk about money, and I "rise above" the grumbling of disaffected staff who have a pop about locums and the money local authorities shell out on them-sometimes within my earshot. My industry (social work) has a high staff turnover and I don't feel in the least guilty re my earning power. Even with the constraints imposed by managed services, I still negotiate my rates. It's all relative-my temp status affords me greater flexibility and renumeration, but the downside is no sickness, holiday or maternity pay, alongside the potential for instability if a contract is not renewed, etc.

[happiestblonde]

I know I'm earning atleast £4k more on my basic than the 2 men who were taken on at the same time as me simply because I asked for it and am better It is entirely downt to yourself to ensure you are earning what you deserve.

[Tigerbomb]

I don't feel my salary is anyone's business but my own. I am happy with it.

Knowledge of other peoples salaries will bring bitterness and resentment, coming from either yourself or your colleagues

[SeaTrek]

Exactly ornamentalcabbage.

I am a teacher so my salary is pretty easy to work out. It is also completely in the public domain and standardised so not much of a secret!

My husband on the other hand has benefits and bonuses that at times are greater than his annual salary. Standard bonus is 20% of annual salary (range so far has been 0% to 30% depending on how the company performs), he also has share options, £500/mth car allowance and has been given windfall shares (subject to company performance over a set time) that may be worth nothing to several times his annual salary. He is also based from home so ALL travel can be claimed for and he works at home approx 3 days a week, therefore no commuting time. He was headhunted for a job fairly recently that was an increase in pay more than my fulltime annual salary but with benefits were factored in it really wasn't as good a deal as he has now.

[ornamentalcabbage]

It's not just the salary but the benefits package. My current salary is low but the benefits (decent company pension, share schemes, bonus, etc) are very valuable. More openess is a good thing, but it's not always easy to compare from company to company what people are paid. I know this from the days when I worked for a multinational and was trying to decide what salary to ask for if I moved to another (privately owned) company.