Meeting my DP's daughter for the first time.

[GrumpyMoo]

Oh hello all you lovely people! I haven't posted for a while as the last time I posted was for something completely enormous!

I had so much fantastic advice before and such warm support that I need to call on everyone again. I'm sorry it might get a bit longwinded but i'm at the end of my rope here :(

The upshot here is that my DP is resistant to me meeting his daughter despite us being together for 10 months.

I met my partner back in October last year (it wasn't meant to be anything more than a casual thing, after my last 'DP' was such a screaming cocklodger, I?d decided not to introduce my kids to any more stress in that area.) We'd become really close friends by Christmas, so much so that one thing led to another and here we are now 10 months down the line and in most respects he's lovely. Honest, sweet and so many things that make me really happy. He really is. Yeah I know that doesn?t mean that people are meant to be together but it is something worth working for, isn?t it?

But there is one area that we consistently rub wrong. Well, I do anyway. He?d rather stick his head in the sand. He finds it really hard to open up or even talk. But he and i used to talk all the time when we first met. Above and beyond the usual 'getting to know each other' stuff. He told me a few months ago that he was depressed about his job and other things. Things like me meeting his daughter. And I have come to the edge of ending things once already over this. How much space is enough?

Back in January he moved into his own place after living with his in-laws after splitting up with his wife the previous May as he was cheating on him. We'd spoken a lot about me meeting his daughter prior to this, but his ex was completely against the idea (despite her meeting and moving in with her 'new' partner within 6 weeks of leaving her marriage. I think hypocrisy is too polite here, folks) to the point of threatening him with a complete lack of contact with his daughter if he let me see her. She told him that the end of April would be soon enough for us to meet.

In February I ended up meeting his daughter for a short while as I had left my duvet at his place (after staying there while my own children were off with their father on holiday) and he said it would be fine if he brought it over to me. For the record i told him that I had others and he insisted it was ok. i took it that he had decided it was a good time for his daughter and I to meet regardless of his ex?s decision. I didn?t completely agree and I said he should tell her beforehand just so she?d know. Again I made the assumption that he had.

He hadn?t as it turned out. The three of us had a lovely time and I even made her tea as it was that time of day. They were with me just over an hour before going home. Obviously his daughter mentioned to her mum what she?d done that day (she?s only 5 after all) and the mum went spare and told my partner that he would never see his daughter again. And she stuck to that for 6 weeks. 6 weeks oif hell for my partner.

I can understand why he is reluctant to go through it again. I really can. It hurts me more than I can admit to, that he won?t stand up to his ex on this score and it makes me sound really petty but he keeps choosing to keep her happy rather than stand up for what he keeps saying to me, which is that he wants us all to have a normal family relationship. I have tried to get him to understand that I support him and that I can?t ask him to push this as it has to be his decision or else it means nothing and then if it all goes pear shaped he?ll blame me for it.

But where do I draw the line? Two weeks ago after we?d been talking about it all yet again he said would I like to meet his daughter this weekend. Today or tomorrow. I asked him what event it was or which special occasion, to which he replied none. My point was that surely then and there was better! Especially as it had been so long. So I said yes ok, that?s fine. And now here we are and he has made an oblique point of saying to me that he and his daughter will not be seeing me this weekend.

He would normally have come over last night and when I asked him Friday morning whether I would see him he told me flat out that ?no of course not as he has his daughter all weekend? Slap me if I have taken that a bit wrong! But didn?t he say to me that this weekend was when he?d like to get the three of us together (no not all of us as he thinks my kids would overwhelm her, if you can believe that)?

Where am I going wrong here? It hurts so much. Or am I being a spoilt brat? Tell me honestly please people!

[GrumpyMoo]

Oh mjin it is so desperately hard to do the right thing isn't it? Your situation sounds like a complete nightmare. Thank goodness you have your OH to keep you going through it. I personally have never understood why people (women especially for some reason) become insane when relationships end. Surely if things idn;t work out between those two people that doesn;t preclude them both getting on with their own seperate individual lives? Jealousy just eats you up and doesn;t have any table manners when it comes to spitting you back out again! I'm not saying I'm a paragon of virtue or anything but I did make a 200 mile round train journey to make sure my kids didn;t miss their dad's wedding last year. Out of my pocket. Because for us it was the right thing to do.

He is a bit of a knob whne it comes to his kids and always has been but they still needed to be there for it. And we are realising now that his new wife is turning out to be a lttle bit of a mix between Cruella and Snow White's lovely Step Mum. You and I can't be the only 'nice' new partners out there surely???

What you are going through with your DSD is hard to accept, I know. I'm very lucky that my DSD still loves me and wants to see me. Mainly due to her being able to see her father for what he is rather than putting those old rose tinted's on. But then she ahs always been a bit more than normal, calling me Mum really quickly and never ever going down the 'you're not my mother' route. But then she didn;t have a living mother to have to think about as far as feelings go. Maybe things would ahve been different if her mother hadn't died when she was very little, but who knows.

I don;t know how any of this will pan out. And after being tortured all weekend by text messages from my DP about what he and his daughter were doing I am completely wrung out today.

I hope you have a fabulous day out there while it attempts to lay sunshine on us, for the time being. ;)

[GrumpyMoo]

God I've just re-read all that I just wrote and I want to apologise, profusely, I hadn't realised how long winded it was!

[GrumpyMoo]

Oh blimey! I never thought so many people would listen to my problem here. Thanks so much to all of you. I know what busy days we all have out there and for you all to take time out over this means a huge deal to me! I?m sorry if I miss anyone out here but some of the points you all raise I wanted to come back to.

Justonemorethen I have said that he can do this, and that his ExW can?t legally stop him seeing his daughter, that?s what organisations like CAFCASS are for, but he doesn?t want to cause more ripples than already being caused by their divorce. He is a completely nice person you see. And half of him is torn I think by this. But ultimately, and I agree, his priority is his daughter, as much as he can see her. God that sounds contradictory doesn?t it? :(

dilemma456 I want to have a relationship with this man for as long as I possibly can. And to my mind his daughter is the biggest part of his life. I have nothing that I keep apart from him. My family, my friends, my life are all open to him. It hurts that he doesn?t see it the same way. But until now I haven?t pushed the issue from my side but the more time goes on the less he has motivation to do anything. I know the time frame isn?t mine to push and I wish I knew how to articulate this better. I just see him settling in and never changing. I would rather risk an argument now and we have a proper future than step back and end up breaking up over it. Seriously what kind of person would I be if I wasn?t interested in his daughter?

I have a 24 yo DSD from my marriage to my children?s father whom I still adore and keep in touch with (she was 8 when I married her dad). My previous ?DP? of the cocklodging character, had one daughter of 10 whom I welcomed into my family (as anyone who got drawn into that epic posting will already know from last year) and indeed she lived here half the week, but was shut out of our lives (even whilst she was living here) by her fathers wish to segregate the two sides, he didn?t wish to ?contaminate? his daughter with my kids and my principles of parenting. I am merely trying to illustrate that step-parenting is hardly a new one to me. I can?t imaging having a relationship of the calibre I have with my DP and keeping my children apart! They are the hugest part of me.

minxie1977 I have to add that this isn?t the first time my DP and his ex have been apart, not that I?m trying minimise the impact any break up has on the children involved. But this time is very different. And she is such a bright little thing, so bubbly and full of beans. And I?ve just recalled something I had deliberately forgotten in order to protect myself. I did see her another time. It was either the same night or the next one back in February. I?d gone to his place after dinner. We played and she asked could I give her, her bath. After her bath we all sat on his living room floor and she pulled books (his books, not hers, mind) out of the bookcase and proceeded to tell us the story of each book! Some of them were crime thrillers but the stories she made up of them were incredible. A brilliant little mind she has, such a sweetie. I?d forgotten all that until just now. And now I?m crying again. How stupid I am.



Mjinhiding You, my dear, have my utmost sympathy and respect. It is horrible what you have been through and are still going through. But you sound so well balanced! I?d love to know how you do it. I have put myself in my DP?s, ExW?s shoes and have given her the benefit of the doubt more than once and indeed taken her side with my DP from time to time (right is right, after all) but as time has gone on the things she has done to my DP have gradually used up my sympathies. And now I have to look at her reasons behind her actions more than anything else. In my mind everyone gets the benefit of the doubt and usually more than one second chance. Life is complicated and nothing is ever all that clear cut. Her behaviour towards her EX (my dp) has deteriorated since he met me. Apparently in the beginning they were amicable and had all things sorted quite well (well, so long as he went along with her wishes) but after he met me and suggested that the things they?d agreed on for after they both had new partners, things changed. She changed. Suddenly he was being unreasonable and difficult about seeing his daughter. and she would change when he could see her or if he could see her at all t the drop of a hat. And if he?d made plans then he ?didn?t want to see her? and ?was a bad father?. But if she changes things then that?s ?just how things go?.

I?d been devils advocate all along, telling him that yes actually stuff happens and sometimes you just have to go with it, but as time went on it became clear that her changes were more to annoy him than genuine.

Dinahrod I don?t think dragging this all out through the court will make his daughter?s life any better and will only make her mum angry towards me which will poison any rapport we may have built.


Drinkyourmilk thank you for your endorsement and your encouragement! It isn?t easy seeing both sides and it is something I quite like about myself that I can in most cases. I?m just finding it a little hard here to see things clearly. My DP does have to make some decisions here. I have tried to explain to him that in a real relationship you can say things that you can?t to most people. We may not like it being said (as in ?bugger off for a bit you?re doing my head in?) but we?ll still be around afterwards. It would take A LOT for me to walk away form this man. Sadly this is one of those things that to me IS a deal breaker. I?m not saying that if he doesn?t ?do as I say? I will walk, but I have to see the bigger picture here too. Not only for myself but for my kids too. They have heard so much about his daughter and really want to meet her too. In the beginning they couldn?t stop asking about her and wanting to see her. Over time they have stopped asking (as have I) because they simply can?t understand the bigger issues, and why should they? To them it is very simple: they are all kids and would have a great time playing together. Any new friends are brilliant and they love my DP so by extension they already love her too.


Curlymama you had it spot on! And you too made me cry. I had only just stopped after minxie did her bit for the Kleenex corporation! I couldn?t have put it better myself.


chippingIn it hurts me to see how he suffers through this but I can?t completely step back from my own pain. I hate seeing this happening to him; he is such a good person. I hope I haven?t portrayed him to be anything else. Ok, ok, he?s no paragon of virtue; he is after all, a man. Flawed and a bit stupid at times. And sometimes I could take a bat to his head he is so dense! But there is something there that I am holding on for. He may never marry me, and I may never want him too (well, I do but we won?t go there) but I think it takes more than a ring to make a committed relationship.

I don?t know how this will end but your support has made it so much easier to put it all back in proportion and perspective. :(
xxx

[ChippingIn]

No, as I said earlier, I think GM has a few things to sort out with her DP :(

[Minxie1977]

I agree mum is being unreasonable about that, but two unreasonables don't make a right or whatever

It would also be nice if they could all get along but that's not life at the mo - I personally don't see point in pushing it, especially as the realationship sounds rocky.

[ChippingIn]

Minxi - I agree that 'DD' isn't suffering directly from not seeing GM (although she keeps talking about her and presumably wants to know why she's not allowed to see her?!), but how much nicer it would be for her if she could see her Dad and GM together. It's my opinion too that children shouldn't be introduced to new partners too quickly, but I don't think 10 months is 'too quickly' and as her Mum moved in with her new partner 6 weeks after her Mum & Dad split up, I don't think she's really thinking about her daugher - do you??

(Of course we don't know the otherside of the story, you could say that about any situation on MN. GM could be a hairy trucker for all we know , so all we can go on is the info provided.)

Curlymama you said the same thing - but so much better!




if the Mother was thinking about the child - she wouldn't have been moving in with her new partner 6 weeks after splitting up with GM's DP.

[curlymama]

I'm sorry to say it, but Chipping In's point of 'If he's not prepared to do it - he's just not that into you' is a good one. Of course there could be lots of other things going on, and maybe he is genuinely worried that he may lose contact with his dd. But the fact is, that if he was determined to have you in his life for the long run, then he must know that it's something he will have to do at some point. And surely any sensible parent knows that a stroppy ex can't simply deny a good father access indefinately. He may have to fight to see his daughter if the ex is that bad, but then if he loves you it's a fight he should be prepared to take on. Maybe this isn't what you want to hear, and maybe I'm completely wrong, but it's worth thinking about.

I only say this because when I split with my ex, I had an on off relationship with a guy who was lovely, and desparate to meet my kids and do the whole step parent thing. As much as I cared about him and wanted him to be part of my life at that time, I knew he wasn't the one. I didn't want him to spend any time with my kids knowing that he wasn't going to be around forever, even though I knew he would probably be prepared to commit. And I may have even let him believe that he could meet my kids at some point, while at the same time putting him off as much as possible. When I got together with my now DH (we had known eachother for years before then) I couldn't wait for him to meet my ds's because I knew that he was going to be around for the rest of my life. It was hard at the time not to rush into him meeting the ds's. And yes, my ex went mental and was very difficult about the whole thing, but we got over it because I was prepared to stand up for both my children, and my relationship. This is what your DP needs to be doing, ten months is long enough for him to know what he wants with you.

[Minxie1977]

I'm sure she did ChippingIn - Op's was lovely to her and that bodes well for the future. I don't think DD is suffering by not seeing her though, as they only met once. If DP really wants to push access he should, and of course he has the right to see his child. However, 10 months isn't that long and it's not essential they spend time together. I chose to wait a while before I'd meet DSD (despite DH wanting it to happen sooner) as i think the children must come first. As adults we know relationships don't always last, children find that really hard to understand.
Maybe the mum has reasons for being controlling - there's always two sides. What's on here sounds like she's being awful but maybe she's not a bitch!!

[drinkyourmilk]

GrumpyMoo - it's refreshing to have someone take the negatives said so well (and value them as much as the positives). I have to say you're a bigger person than me!

Reading more about your situation - I'm wondering if your partner needs to be clearer (to you and himself) about what HE wants at this time (and it may very well change). It doesn't help anyone when he's simply placating you with meaningless promises. Is he the kind of person you can put on the spot and ask if he really wants you guys to meet yet or would rather you wait?

[DinahRod]

Your dp needs to formalise access legally - hypocrite ex is using it as a means of bringing him to heel. We have a good male friend in exactly the same situation.

[ChippingIn]

Minxie - the DD enjoyed her time with GM - why should they both suffer because her Mother is being a controlling bitch?

GM I don't know if he's serious about you, playing games or confused either. What I do know is that his first move needs to be to get proper access to his DD and not be played like a puppet.

[Minxie1977]

Agree with hairytriangle

I'm sure he does want you to meet her but maybe it's better all round if you both decide to just leave it for now. 10 months feels like ages at the time but it's a blink if this is a 'forever' relationship.

Wait a while and let his DD have her relationship with her Daddy all to herself, during what must be a very sad time for her.

[dilemma456]

Do you want a relationship with him or his DD? I want DP, I love him to the end of the earth and I'm prepared to put up with certain inconveniences to accommodate that love. Besides because I love him I find I automatically love his children and do not want them to suffer

Its DD I worry for as she grows up and wants to know why she can't see her half siblings but it is something we're going to ahve to deal with as we go.

[ChippingIn]

Justonemorethen (love your name!!) The mother had a new partner within 6 weeks of them splitting up. It is hard luck if she is having a hard time accepting he has moved on as well no? From other things GM has said it's a control issue, not a worry issue.

HT - the childs mother does not have the right to tell her Ex husband who he can and cannot see when he has his daughter - that's ridiculous.

My advice - he needs to go to court to get access of his daughter sorted out. It is not up to his ex wife how much he gets to see her and it is not up to her to determine whether their DD sees you or not.

[GrumpyMoo]

Thank you for your honesty here. I didn;t post to be only told what i want to hear. But he keeps telling me he wants me to meet his daughter. I am merely trying to work out whetehr he is serious about having me in his life or if he is playing mind games or is actually confused himself. :(

[hairytriangle]

"Yes i completly agree, which is why i have left it so long. But after 10 months? And despite him saying how much he wants the two of us to meet up?"

But you being in his life doesn't automatically entitle you to be in her life. perhaps he wants personal time with her, perhaps her mum is not comfortable with you spending time with her. If it's either, they are both within their rights, and you have no right to be included in her life.

Harsh as that may sound, it's true.

When I met my step-daughter, we made sure we let her mum know that was happening - it worked out fine, but if she hadn't have been happy with it, I wouldn't have met her at that stage.

[GrumpyMoo]

Thank you so much everyone for all your insights. mjinhiding a lot of his problems stem from not wanting to hurt anyone, but the one who is hurting form this is him, i believe it is affecting him with the depression, he ahs changed such a lot since we first met and it breaks my heart to see it.

The ituation is in one respect really slear cut - either he wants us in his life (ergo his daughter) or he doesn't. But the reality is that there are a lot of factors which play a part here. He IS pandering to his ex but out of fear of losing his daughter completely. I do get that.

And the part about his daughter not wanting to see me? He used to tell me how annoyed his ex was back then because I was all his daughter was talking about for a long time and even now he grudgingly admits that she still (after 6 months and no other contact) asks about me. We got on really well while she was here, though that isn;t difficult when it's such short time and i love kids anyway.

Yes he does wnat the kids to meet his daughter but not all at once. I think he's being silly personally and I was hoping that my recent visit from my brother and his two small children would prove to him that my kids are good with small children (which they really, really are). Part of me isn;t sure whether he is resistant due to the whole precious first born thing or not, if he has a genuine concern!

drinkyourmilk I agree totally. I do come across as forceful. B|ut then I have learnt that backing off with him simply allows him wiggle room. He does not then need to move forward as there is no pressure. I'm, not by nature a forceful person and I will do almost anything to avoid a confrontation. But I hurt so much over this and I need some other sensible peoples perspectives in oreder to move forward myself.

FallingWithStyle I have done exactly that for so long now. But I have to accept that for me, if you are in a committed reletionship then your lives are inter-connected. If I thought for an instant that his ex had a valid point then i would be the first to admit I was being needlessly pushy here. She has 3 other children by another man who still lives just down the road and is still firmly at her beck and call. Which is exactly where she wants my DP. She is controlling and hypocritical. Her point is that my DP is only allowed to be there when SHE wants him to have the daughter not when he does. It's all one sided on her part and only at her convenience. The daughter's welfare doesn;t come into it, only her own feelings. And I speak from my own experience here, having heard her say vile things about the girl in her pressence. To my mind you just don;t do that.

ChippingIn I have told my DP that exact thing but the fear for him is that over time his role in his daughters life will get less and less. His contact now is much less than it was when he and I started seeing each other. And that is his punishment from his ex for having another relationship. Her previous EH is still firmly tied to her apron strings. She says jump he doesn;t even bother to query how high.

She ahs the gall to say that my DP doesn;t care about his daughter but I know first hand what that is like and he is the best kind of 'not at home dad'. She has it sooo lucky and she does not appreciate it!

dilemma456 I have held back for so long now, but it hurts too much. He shuts me out to protect himself and right now I have to start protecting myself. Part of me would be happy to never meet her but then I don;t think that is a real relationship. To be together but not emtioanlly available to each other. Both my other relationships have been like that and it is completely unhealthy.

[dilemma456]

That's right mjinhiding.

It is complicated but if you met DPs ex everything would fall into place I want contact with them and of course I want DD to know them but sadly its just not that simple

[dilemma456]

I uderstand how you feel about it but for the sake of the children we sometimes have to adhere to some very unpopular decisions when relationships break up.

DD is 5 in a few months and has NEVER met 2 of her 3 half siblings and the other only fleetingly because DPs ex has totally refused to allow it. Its a horrible thing and we hate it but the stress that is likely to ensue for DPs children would be horrendous :( :(