Adoption with Dogs

[LookWithYourHeart]

I’d love to read about anyone who has applied to adopt or successfully adopted with pets, especially dogs?

My husband and I are planning to start an application to adopt siblings at the end of this year. We will then be in a position where I could afford to give up work if necessary to stay home if needed.

Knowing we would not be starting the process until Winter 2019, we got a Labrador puppy last year at the end of the summer who is now 6 months old. We already have a Yorkshire terrier who is 10 and adored by all our friends’ children. By the time we have our first SW visit, the puppy will be around 18 months old which we hope means will reflect her adult personality for assessment.

My concern is that I have read some other threads online where people have been rejected based on dog assessment and also have been forced to have to agree to rehome their dogs to progress their application. This is not something we would personally be able to do but I’d like to know how many have experienced that?

Our dogs this Christmas were around a baby, toddlers, 6-11 year olds who love playing with them but the dogs do just require a 10 minute introduction calming session where we ask the the kids to just sit with them as new people get them very excited. The puppy is a little challenging at first as she’s got so big now but still leaps etc but she is improving, albeit slowly. After that 10 minute calm session, the kids were able to play with the dogs all night and ended up tiring the dogs out to the point they didn’t even wake up when the door knocked later that evening.

I grew up with animals as did most of my friends and they enriched my life, heart & soul. Compassion with animals is such a gift to encourage children to have and I feel that it’s a positive thing to have pets in the home.

Obviously if a child/children had any negative history/experience with animals they wouldn’t be matched to us so I’m optimistic that there will be some positive stories of successful adoptions where children were matched to families with dogs.

I’d love to hear your experiences, even if negative, understanding the reasons and what exactly was identified as the potential issue?

Thanks in advance.

[Haffdonga]

I know families who have adopted very successfully with dogs (and cats, rabbits and horses). I also know a family who adopted who had an extremely well-behaved child-loving dog. (The dog was even used as a hospital visiting dog it was so trustworthy.) Their child loved animals and adored the dog but was sadly just unable to control their behaviour around it when they felt upset or frustrated. They discovered the child was harming the dog when anyone's back was turned (e.g. deliberately feeding it chocolate after being told why not to and trying to cut its ears off with kitchen scissors). This was a child who loved the dog very much but who couldn't cope. Of course they had to re-home it which was devastating for everyone including the child who suffered yet more loss and a sense of shame.

Also, your question here Are you suggesting a list of children to be adopted doesn’t exist with criteria such as pets or no pets for a SW to select from? is kind of the wrong way round. SWs don't select children from a list for the parents, they select parents for the child.

Having said all that, I don't think your adoption hopes are unrealistic just because you have dogs, but SWs would just want to be sure that if it came to the crunch you'd put child before dog. Despite the most careful matching there can never be a way of guaranteeing that such a crunch might not come.

[dappledsky]

OP, I apologise if I misunderstood your post, and you are right that I do not have personal experience of adopting with pets to share with you.

What I do have is a great deal of experience working with vulnerable children in the care system. The thought of sending a child for extra medical tests is upsetting to me hence why I reacted so strongly to your suggestion.

What I do also feel strongly about is finding the right family for each child. You, your partner and dog may well be that family. Please don't let having a dog put you off pursuing adoption.

[donquixotedelamancha]

Some random thoughts:

1. I’d love to hear your experiences We have a dog. It simply wasn't an issue- we had the assessment and that was it. This will be the experience of 95% of pet owners who adopt but you won't read it online because it's not worth mentioning. Having a dog is no barrier at all.

1. I’ve read plenty of other negative threads with people like you just shaming families with dogs and their opinions expressed in an abrupt and aggressive manner.

You've been reading AUK haven't you? There are a small number of proper anti-dog nutters on there.

1. It is vanishingly unlikely you will have issues with a Lab and a Yorkie who've experienced kids before. In order of decreasing likelihood and increasing seriousness your potential problems are:

• SW who's scared of dogs.
• The dogs start getting jealous.
• Allergies.
• A kid who responds really badly, worst case hurting the animal.

The last two are really rare (because kids with known issues aren't going to be placed with you), but they mean the dogs need a new home- it's that simple.

1. I am not reluctant to place my potential children before my dogs. I'm sure that's true but that's not how it comes across. You need say two things very clearly to the SW:

• I will never leave the child alone with the dogs.
• If necessary the dogs can be re-homed.

.....and mean it. If you hedge your answers like you have on here, it will create serious problems for you. Of course we all understand how you would feel about the prospect- I'd have been mortified- but I feel like you are missing the key thing about adoption:

Your needs are totally irrelevant in adoption- the child comes first, second and everything else. Many adopted children have substantial needs and nobody who wouldn't deal well with the more extreme possibilities gets approved because there is no certainty, and disruption is a horrible outcome. That's the lens through which SWs are viewing these conversations- not to try to reject people with dogs, but to ensure the difficult possibilities have been considered.

[donquixotedelamancha]

@dappledsky What a lovely response. I shall think of you the next time I feel the urge to try to 'win' an argument online and try to be equally constructive.

[LookWithYourHeart]

Thanks for the posts with relevant experiences of positive adoption with animals and your detailed advice. It’s been helpful to read your comments.

It’s true that when it’s not an issue, it’s not mentioned online which is why after finding so many negative threads online I was hoping to hear more positive experiences here

I’m grateful for those kind enough to answer my questions.

Positivity for the ‘win’

[Thepinklady77]

I am coming to this late. I have very little to add but to say your dogs should not be a barrier and very unlikely to cause any difficulty BUT you absolutely have to be a peace with the idea that your dogs may need re-homed. You say if your child developed an allergy or fear after adoption order had been granted you would have to re-home. Do you mean anytime after placement? The child will likely be with you for months before an adoption order is granted. What a social worker will want peace of mind about is that the dog will go as early as deemed necessary - the dog can not be at the expense of a disrupted placement for the child.

My son came from disrupted foster to adopt placement, dogs were not a named cause of the placement disruption, but from the day he moved in with us he has had a massive fear of dogs. There was a dog in the previous placement and comments/events subsequently have led us to believe that the dog was a big issue. As it was not known pre coming to us SW-era have said that he would have been placed with us even if we had dogs as we were there right match for lots of other reasons and they had no idea dogs were a problem for him. Therefore you have to accept that a child placed with you may have no known issues with dogs but may and a quick re-homing may be necessary. If you can be at peace with this idea move forward and peruse adoption. Be very clear with assessing SE-ers that you will re-home and are at peace with that.

[Disneygirl37]

We adopted and have a dog. It has never been an issue. We didn’t adopt a sibling group as we already had birth daughter. I would introduce your dog to children now so they get use to being around kids.
I can’t remember our social worker asking many questions about the dog other than he was in the room when she came to visit and at the end of the assessment she came out for a dog walk with us. As a new family you will have to make lots of changes and I’m sure if you needed to you would make adjustments. Our lives were already very child centred and the social worker just needs to see that you will be.
I found it really good having the dog in the early days as it got us out for a walk everyday. It was a nice low key activity for us to do.
The dog sneaks in and sleeps in one of the kids rooms every night now!
I’m sure in most cases it’s not an issue.
Good luck with the process

[Disneygirl37]

Sorry I just re read, I misread the bit in your post about not being able to re home your dogs if necessary. Obviously it would be worst case scenario and very unlikely. Obviously you would need to be willing to re home the dogs if necessary though.
Sorry don’t read properly first time.

[clairedelalune]

It's not a barrier to adoption provided you are 100% certain that the child would always be put first.There have been cases where allergies /problems have arisen after placement and the adopters have chosen the dog; this absolutely cannot be allowed to happen.
And allergy testing in itself is a very very difficult and painful time; i would not put my worst enemy through it unless absolutely necessary.
I mean this kindly, i think you need to do some more reading about adoption.

[Woollysocks18]

Hi OP,
We have a dog who I absolutely adore and I remember how difficult it was to think about rehoming him if it didn't work out with our LO. However, having a dog has had huge benefits for us, we all go for walks, LO is in charge of putting food in the dogs bowl and will help wash / brush the dog. LO loves snuggling with him on the sofa.

That being said my dog is the sweetest, most relaxed dog in the world. We have very clear boundaries around the dog and he is never left alone with LO, it sounds like you have already thought about what boundaries you will need which is positive.

I do agree with what other PPs have said, if you show hesitation over the hypothetical rehoming question to a SW it will not go in your favour, they will want to see that the child comes first every time in every scenario.

[Kewcumber]

I have/had pets but cats not dogs. They were no benefit to my DS because they hated him, h screeched at them, which they hated and they hid a lot until he went to bed. I never left him alone with them.

Now we have differnt cats (12 years on) and DS loves them.

It seems unlikely that your dogs would be a problem what IS potentially a problem is that you attitude is not clear to a social worker.

All the social worker wants to hear as others have said is:

"We know these dogs have been great with other children but if there are any problems the dogs would go in a nanosecond"

They don't want to hear scenarios where you suggest allergy testing or children who have been exposed to dogs before etc. They want parents who can without hesitation put these children first because they haven't been put first before or they are unlikely to be in care.

No equivocation.

You need to consider that every pet owner here has been where you are, has said this to you. You won't get a differnt answer if you ask more adopters with pets.

We all love our animals, we would all no doubt be heartbroken to rehome them, we all love our children more.

I know it's hard when you don't have a real child to compare the feelings - I was certainly in that position. But you have to stop investigating ways that you would NOT rehome your dogs if necessary. Social workers understandably worry that this is a red flag for other potential issues.

To an uninvested bystander your posts make it sound like you are looking for ways to make a child fit in with your existing set up not looking for ways to make your existing set up work for your child.

Now you can get cross at us for pointing this out or you might want to think about why we have all pretty much said _exactly_the same thing. If you don't rethink how you're looking at things, the dogs won't be the problem because you won't get as far as finding out whether the dogs are a problem.

[Skiphopnjump]

Kewcumber absolutely perfect summary right there!

[Thepinklady77]

Very very wise words from kewcumber as always. OP it is hard when we ask questions but don’t get back the answer we want. We have all been there. I think you have to step back and read all the advice in the spirit it was given (meaningful advice from those of us who have trod the well trodden path ahead of you). Do not take it as an attack but rather guidance as to how you can make this journey as positive as possible. Good luck with your thinking, reading and decision making.

[LookWithYourHeart]

Let's start positively.

Those who have kindly expressed their stories and the same feelings and fears, I thank you for your compassion, sharing your experiences and providing reassurance.

I've also had a response from an agency as follows:

It can be the case that sometimes children have lived with foster carers prior to adoption who have a pet in their home, so any allergies would be identified then.

so I would say that....

They don't want to hear scenarios where you suggest allergy testing or children who have been exposed to dogs before etc. is not completely accurate and they are understanding of the allergy issue. A complete contradiction to what everyone shooting me down are saying.

There are a few people on here who as adopters I assume would be keen to support others considering adoption but instead are set on 'winning' arguments (which this is not) and then proceeding to pat each other on the back for such great comebacks to me.

I am being 100% honest and open with my feelings and how I am processing what needs to be done in terms of my dogs and potential children. I am simply trying to reduce the necessity for re-homing by starting with children with no known allergies which I do not think is wrong

I said further up this thread when it started getting judgmental, I was keen to hear more experiences of adopting with pets, good or bad. I also mentioned it's clear the majority think I am not suited to adoption and it was not necessary to continue to keep saying it to me. Yet, people continued and even justified this by twisting that I was asking for more experience posts to 'get a different answer' which is not the case.

I did not ask for anyone to judge my thought process and attack my words. I wanted to hear how adoption worked with animals because I have only seen negative threads before.

If I could go back in time I would have simply posted "Did you adopt with dogs? Tell me about it?" as I was unaware that my thoughts, story and every word in every sentence would be torn apart and thrown back at me.

Finally, If you don't rethink how you're looking at things, the dogs won't be the problem because you won't get as far as finding out whether the dogs are a problem. sounds like you are judging me on other things as well.

What a shame someone like myself, broken from the pain of failed IVF, failed egg donor cycles, failed embryo adoption and post hysterectomy feeling a little lost in need of supportive experiences of adoption with dogs, stumbled upon a place where the 'win' is telling someone they are not suitable to adopt.

You must be so proud.

I think I'll give this forum a miss from now on.

[Skiphopnjump]

And therein lies your problem OP. Asking for a 'special list" of children not known to have allergies. You realise that adopting a child looks absolutely nothing like picking a child from a list? Adopters are, in theory, competing for the children to be placed. You are not going to have a list to pick from - by ruling out a large number of children You are reducing you or potential matches significantly. And those who do fit your criteria? There will be several other families wanting to adopt those children too. Families who have probably demonstrated they would do anything for those children, whilst a SW would be reluctant to place then with you because should any issues arise you have not shown that you would be willing to even consider rehoming your dog's.

[UnderTheNameOfSanders]

OP. I'm sorry you don't feel supported by the responses you have had so far. This board is one of the most supportive boards on MN in my opinion. Many on this board have come to adoption through similar routes to you. But at this time we also have more experience than you on how the adoption system works and how social workers tend to approach issues.

I think it is all in the wording really.

SW: Would you give up your dogs if you needed to?

Wrong Answer: Only if it was essential e.g. if our dog bit a child. We would want any prospective child to be allergy tested before formal linking.

Right Answer: Absolutely yes, if that was best for a child who was placed with us. Obviously, our dogs are very child friendly, and you wouldn't match us with a child who had known allergy issues or was known to be scared of dogs. But if issues arose and they couldn't be resolved by other routes, then of course we would put our child first. In fact my MIL has already said she could take them should the need arise.

[Somerville]

special list of children

[LookWithYourHeart]

I did not randomly add - or me asking for a special list of children to the end of that sentence.

I’m reporting the post.

[Skiphopnjump]

OP you've actually been given a lot of very sound advice, you just don't like the responses you've been given. And actually this thread is a very useful resource for anyone else down the line worried about adopting with pets do not would be very disappointing if mumsnet did remove it just because you don't like what you're hearing.

[Autumnbloom]

I think many on this post have been incredibly harsh to the OP. OP posted and there have been some good responses along the lines of ‘you must be willing to rehome if it came to it’, OP upthread said she would and her mum would take them. OP didn’t realise that children were not tested and thought a test may be a ‘patch’ test anyway. Fair enough, OP said she didn’t realise this. OP then said if possible, she would be interested in children that were known to not have issues with dogs. What is wrong with that? I did the same, if I had shown interest in children that had known allergies it would have been unfair on everyone, a dog is a commitment too, of course I would rehome if an issue developed as children do come first (as OP said she would) but to try to avoid that in the first place is only sensible.

There are some really experienced people on these boards that have been incredibly supportive to others, but sometimes, pardon the pun, responders can be like a ‘dog with a bone’. Even those with the most experience were once in OPs shoes, right at the beginning with little knowledge. To suggest the OP is unsuitable for adoption, or indeed parenthood is not supportive and could really do some damage. OPs biggest crime on here was to suggest that she would just rather avoid having to rehome her dogs (I was exactly the same), and upthread admitted that if it came to it she would.

[HaveAWeeNap]

Our dog passed the assessment but we had to re-home her when the wee one was placed as they were jealous of the dog and were too rough with them. At times, when emotionally over wrought often they would hit the poor mutt in the face...
It isn't always the dog's 'fault' per se. Sometimes a child of trauma simply cannot cope with the competition.
We adored our dog, but we love our child more. It was a hard thing to do but it was absolutely necessary for both of them.

[Kewcumber]

sounds like you are judging me on other things as well.

You would be wrong about that, I said exactly what I meant, there was no hidden message or judgement. I have no reason to beleive you will not make just as good an adoptive parent as any one of us.

I don't need to win anything. I'm not trying to win anything.

You seem to feel the discussion has gone badly because you asked the question wrongly but that is our point. If you put the issue forward to a social worker the way you have here, a significant number of the social workers I have met would have a potential issue.

It may not feel like it but if you listen with an open mind you will see that what we're trying to do is to help you deal with your social worker (and with a potential real life situation) in a way that will help keep the process on track.

I'm glad that you feel your point of view has been proved right and I would be very happy to be proved wrong and "lose". I won't add to your feeling of not being supported by continuing posting as I feel its upsetting you and that certainly wasn;t my aim.

I do genuinely wish you well.

[HaveAWeeNap]

I've been lurking and occasionally posting on this board since 2012. I've learned so much.
Our wee one has been with us for three and a half years now.
Our family is complete. Life is far from easy and the support and encouragement we've garnered from this board has been invaluable.
O.P. - please take on board the advice offered, even if some of it does feel 'harsh'. These people know what they are talking about.
I wish you the very best of luck. Adoption will change your life, I wish you the joy I've experienced now that I'm a mum.
I never could have countenanced giving up my dog years ago. Over the years, my many dogs have been my 'fur babies', my substitute children and my constant, unwavering friends.
But... sometimes you just have to 'play the game' and say the right things.
Have a real long think about what you are and are not prepared to do in order to be a mum.
Be prepared to put the child first, front and centre. They will need you after the difficult start they've had in life.
In time, you'll come to the realisation that if needs be, the dogs just aren't that important; when weighed up against the needs of a vulnerable child; who needs you, their mummy - so very much.
Best of luck. X

[ifchocolatewerecelery]

We have two beagles and they loved our social worker. We had to do a risk assessment on how to keep both the dogs and children safe. We had to be prepared to rehome if things went badly but our social worker said depending on the circumstances this might be doable with a temporary rehoming with phased introductions. We had the worst panel in our area when it came to approving our match as the paediatrician on it is cautious almost to the point of being anti pets when it comes to dogs because he has first hand experience of the injuries they can cause. Our LO's social worker new this and therefore made sure as part of panel preparations that his concerns would be met.

We passed panel and now have one toddler and two dogs.

It was really hard work in the beginning though and I can completely understand why some people rehome their dogs when they have kids. It took months to get into a routine that works for everyone and they don't get worked nearly as much as they should because the reality is that toddlers can't walk that far and there are limited places you can take dogs and pushchairs and limited space in the car to fit them all in. They cannot be trusted to walk off the lead because they become deaf when they find a scent trail to follow and I'm not yet at a stage where I feel comfortable walking two dogs and keep a walking toddler safe.

[Evidencebased]

Allergy info only: whilst many people with pet allergies are allergic to all of a species - all cats/dogs/horses, that's not the only possibility.

Firstly,Single breed allergies exist - worked with a vet with a contact skin allergy solely to boxer dogs.All other breeds fine. So any simple test, or even living with a different breed may not reveal this.

Secondly, allergies can develop. Or dramatically worsen. It's not the case that you're either allergic to dogs, or ok with dogs, and that's it for life.
Plenty of parents have to re-home pets as their children's excema/asthma worsens.