A rose by any other name, would smell so sweet!

[Italiangreyhound]

Please, if you feel willing and able, come and share your thoughts on names.

Please, please be aware this will be a sensitive and emotive topic so please:

Only share what you feel comfortable and no real names or nick names at all, please.

We were told we should not change a child's name. But I know some people do, have done, will do. I know that it used to be common practice.

Does anyone use nicknames or pet names or change things round?

Have any people adopted as children experienced name change either by their choice or adopted parent choice and how does it feel.

How do birth and adoptive parents feel?

Sorry, I know it will be emotive so let's all be nice to each other! after all this my thread will probably be empty!

[Hels20]

There's an excel spreadsheet you can download with all names registered in a particular year.

[holycowwhatnow]

We kept dd's name, but in fairness, it's a lovely and very international name. Friends of ours who also adopted from Russia kept their children's names and I would have changed them in their case because the names are very hard to get your tongue and head around. Having grown up with a relatively unusual name myself (which I've always hated) I think it's really important for the child to like the name they use. I had the same arguments in a conversation with our SW that Kristina made- that the birth parents give so much more than just the name and that I wanted to be able to choose a name for my child. As it turned out, I loved DD's name.

When dd started talking, she shortened her name herself and this is the name that everyone uses for her now, but she does know her full name. Many moons ago, when I was pg with ds (now 13), the secretary of my fertility dr was called this name (shortened dd's name) and I LOVED it, it was on my girls' shortlist.

In short, I don't think there's a right or wrong answer to the name question. You just have to be doing what you're doing with your child's best interests at heart.

[JammieMummy]

We also had SWs on our prep course being absolutely clear that it was never acceptable to change a child's name and as someone who didn't take their husband's name when we got married I totally understood why and was an avid believer in this approach.

However, fate played a hand as it often does when I am fixed on an idea and we were matched with DD. Her name was so unusual (literally no other children had this name) and there were so many genuine security threats that the SW (same one that ran our prep group) said if we didn't change her name then we would not be considered for her and they would consider adopters that would change the name. We were told we weren't even allowed to put it as a middle name. She was just under 2 when we started introductions, we started calling her by birth name (X) then we called her birth name and new name (X-Y) then about a week after she moved in with us we dropped the X and just called her Y. She immediately responded to new name and has done ever since, she loves her name and although she knows she has "another name" she doesn't identify with it at this time. We have kept her birth middle name though.

When DS came he had a relatively normal name but it was a combination of two of his siblings names (think jack and lawson = Jackson although clearly not that name). We also did research and apparently there was a study where siblings resented each other and AP's if one had been given a new name and the other hadn't as the birth named child didn't feel claimed and often felt the other child was favoured or loved more. This combined with not having his "own" name meant we raised it with the SW, who immediately agreed it should be changed. Which we did in a similar way to DD although he was much younger so it was much easier to do and we put his original first name as a middle name incase he would like to be known by it in future.

We did not pick names similar to the original names, we took the opportunity to pick names we thought would suit them now and when they were older, that also have lots of abbreviations so they can "choose" how they are known if they want to. We also picked the names for their meanings so we could tell them that.

I have to say it was easy to change DS's name as it never felt like it suited him for some reason but for DD I didn't mind her unusual name and it was hard to think of her as a different person with a different name. I have written both children letters explaining fully the reasons for the name changes and why their new names were picked. And we met DD's Grandmother who's first statement to us was "I hope you have changed her name" so not all family wanted her to have it.

One last thought to put out there though, I work with birth families (not a SW) and lots of them put no or little thought into a name! Or they put in the thought to make it as identifiable as possible with no consideration for how the child will grow up with such a name. I know of one mother who SWs rang everyday for 6 weeks saying "what shall we call the baby." in the end she said "I don't care, just call it X". I was gobsmacked when the mother told me that and told me she didn't care if adopters changed it. I hope to god they did as I would hate to have been given my name with such little though and great contempt.

[Italiangreyhound]

Thanks Jammie, Holycow and all. It is really helpful to hear these perspectives.

[Italiangreyhound]

Can I ask in terms of security what are the concerns? I mean I know about not putting photos on line and on facebook but what are the other concerns about names specifically.

Can random people access school files etc? I would hope not but I am just trying to work out what the issues are.

Please do PM me if you would prefer to.

Thanks for the interesting discussion.

[cedar12]

I would have thought it would make it easier to trace them when they are older and go on Facebook etc

[JammieMummy]

There is of course the Facebook concern but that isn't until they reach a certain age.

Our DD had to be adopted out of area due to snatching risks but even so we still live (just) less than an hours drive from the area birth parents live. BP have a very wide network of "friends" and if a small brown haired girl was called X in our local park on 99 days out of 100 it would be fine, but there was a possibility on the 100th day someone's ear would prick up. The would click it is an unusual name and a general description of the child, put 2 and 2 together and contact BP's. Our BP would think nothing of driving an hour and sitting in the park for weeks (in shifts) to have the opportunity to take her.

The other side of it is we are not allowed to send photographs to BP as they are both prolific Facebook users. Recently there was a situation where some (not our) BP posted a recent letter box picture on a poster saying the boy has been "taken" from them and they were searching for him on Facebook. Another parent at the boys school contacted them and told them where he was! They turned up at the school and in the end the adopted family had to move areas and the boy schools as they just couldn't keep him safe, let alone the stress of the situation.

These are extreme examples but these were the real risks to our daughter. Also if she ever won an award or achievement (school like to put the "star of the week"'s name on their websites) she wouldn't have been allowed to have that recorded on any Internet based anything (website etc) which we didn't feel was fair to her as she grew older and especially aged 6, 7, 8 etc she would find this particularly difficult to understand. You could literally google her name and only she would have come up from the UK!

So I think for us it was an extremely unusual name combined with particularly determined BP and the need to keep our DD safe. Now I know it was absolutely the right choice, but when we first heard until she settled into her new name I found it very difficult.

Does that explain the risks a bit better? Can anyone think of any more?

[KristinaM]

Re Facebook -if I had any children for whom I had a security concern, I would have the following rules ( for parents and children )

No real name on Facebook
No real photo on profile page
Only RL friends to be Fb friends
Control over who tags you in photos


It doesn't protect you from friends of friends but it does stop you being traceable on random searches

[Angelwings11]

Our AD as previously mentioned had an unusual and quite distinct name. When I put the name into a search engine it had only minimal hits within the UK. She was moved a considerable distance from where she was born due to security and her SW was very matter of fact when she said BM would search for her. In our AD CPR it stated that no photographs should be exchanged. So you can understand why we were in favour of changing it completely.

In regard to other security measures we take, we do not nor do our family/friends publish photos online and I have not given permission for my daughters pre-school to publish photographs nor distribute images to other parents. DH works for a major IT company and knows that face recognition technology is invented and very soon will be available for consumers, so we are very strict upon this.

we were advised to refer to BM as either BM or by her first name (her name/surname although not unheard of is quite uncommon when combined together) when we talk to our AD about her; this being in the event of our AD trying to search without the appropriate support etc. When we sign letter box we do so by saying 'from the adoptive parents' (I am the only person within the UK who has this combination of name and surname).

italiangreyhound have you looked on any adoption forums about this subject? I am part of one (happy to pm the address) and many of the adopters with older children (teenagers) have stated that if they were adopting today then they WoULd change their childrens names. Many have had disruptions and/or some very confused children. Sometimes it has been through searches by the AC and BP. At times due to the complexities of BF; for instance, where some siblings have direct contact and others not within the same family can create issues: unsolicited exchange of photographs etc, siblings passing on the new name of their brother/sister....

Some of my adopter friends live within the same county/town/borough as the BF and have even been warned from going to certain towns in case they bump into them.

[JammieMummy]

I agree with KristinaM that there are measures you can put in place for when your children are able to use Facebook if that is your only concern. Although you also have to trust your teenagers will do everything you ask of them! Mine are still little so not sure how that will be in a few years time.

My biggest hope is the like "friends reunited" and "MySpace" Facebook loses its appeal and becomes un-cool before my children get to that age! As although they cant be traced by name I just don't like the concept of facebook at all and I am not sure I would trust any teenager not to have a wobbly moment and search for BP (again a common problem) without understanding the full implications.

[JammieMummy]

angelwings your situation sounds similar to ours and we take the same precautions as you with regards to not allowing any friend etc to put a photo of them on the Internet etc.

However a few years have gone by for us and I allow her school to post images of her (thus far news letter only not online) but will allow online in time as BP have no photos of her over the age of 2 and she is a very different looking child now! Does your husband think face recognition technology will be able to recognise say a 5 year old's face when a 2 year old's photo is scanned in?

[cedar12]

Gosh this thread has made me panic a bit for the future.My ds has an unusual name.
Ss says that Bm is not security risk, but I think she would be quite easy to trace when he is older. If he decides to trace his bm I would like him to be able to do it on his terms. When he is 18, what is she allowed to do re tracing? The birth dad has disappeared as far as I know.
When I met bm she said she knew wasn't allowed to see him until he was 18. I think there is a high chance of her trying to trace him as soon as he turns 18. Is it true that she can try and contact us even if he doesn't want it? or can she just put a lettrr on his file.

[Moomoomie]

My oldest dd 14 years old is on Facebook, she is under a totally different name, she chose to do this herself. She has all the securities in place so she can't be traced and does not post photographs. TBH she doesn't post much at all, she uses it more to message her friends privately.
It is the same with photos of school plays etc, which is always an emotive subject on MN! We have said no photos in the media and on school website etc, but we have not said no photos of school plays, it is a risk you have to take based on the facts you have been given.

[Hayleyh34]

I think it's really important to be mindful of security but also not to panic. Unless someone has a really distinctive first name then I'm unsure how birth parents will trace them when they won't know the last name or the area that they live in?

Every situation is different and I would hate the thought that prospective adopters are left thinking that it's the norm to change your child's name to stop birth parents abducting them or that all prospective children have really distinctive names.

When we were looking through profiles, the majority of children had bog standard names apart from a handful. We are careful with security issues but try not to over worry about it

[RabbitRabbit78]

This is a very interesting thread! It was drummed into us by SWs that we weren't to change DS's first name for reasons as given by other above (I think I phrased it badly as the only thing BPs give them, I am still working some of this out in my head).

I am surprised to hear that so many adopters do change names because of what SWs said to us (security issues etc notwithstanding) - in fact they told us not to consider matching with children whose name we wouldn't want to keep. Luckily this was never an issue as all the profiles we saw were relatively ordinary names... Definitely gives us something to think about next time around!

FWIW... We have changed his middle name! I agree with what people have said up thread about the claiming process. Everything in adoption seems to be a thorny issue of one kind or another!

[AngelsWithSilverWings]

My DS has an unusual name ( we had never heard it before although in the US it's very common and I think it is becoming more popular in the UK)

It means that we can't allow his name to appear anywhere that would link him to our home or his school or local clubs as his name is too easily recognisable.

My DD wasn't named by her BM as she was abandoned at the hospital where she was born. The nurses named her but on arrival at her foster carer's she was given a new name as she apparently didn't look like an X as she was clearly a Y! So now she has both names and we gave her an extra middle name that was special to us.

[drspouse]

cedar if your son's Bmum wants to try and trace him via FB, there is nothing legally to stop her doing that when he is 18. You might want to read the other thread on here by the friend of a birth family.

Our DS also didn't have a name and so rather than perpetually be known as "Baby Boy" we gave him a name. His birthmum gave him lots of things, some good, some bad, but we gave him his name.

We have also been told the name is "the only thing they gave a child" which basically means that our DS's bmum didn't give him anything... which is just not true.

I would be cautious about name changes if you are not sure, if there have been name changes in the past (e.g. if FC used a nickname or middle name, perhaps because there was some uncertainty or a security risk in their town when out and about). I think there's a bit of a difference between a single name change once and several name changes. Likewise for older children it needs to be driven by them.

I originally thought I'd be happy changing the name of a child who didn't know their name, and changing the spelling for a child who didn't know how to spell it, but I'm actually coming round to thinking it's OK with slightly older children, particularly because of traceability including with siblings (as someone has said).

[Angelwings11]

JammieMummy I will ask DH as I am unsure. On another note, there was recently a post on an adoption forum where an adopter had their picture taken by a BP for the purposes of searching for them instead....scary stuff!

[Italiangreyhound]

There certainly seem to be different situations here. Situations where security is an issue. That is totally understandable. Others where it may not be.

Can I ask if anyone has actual contact with a birth parent? Feel free to PM me or be very evasive in your reply!

The thing coming across to me, which is wonderful (on this very polite thread, so glad it is not us being cross that people do things differently) is that different situations may call for a different approach.

This is something social workers did not explore. They also did not touch on facebook etc.

There seem to be different issues. Security in connection to school, photos and names etc, in relation to being out and about and calling their name etc, and issues to do with facebook when they are older. These issues may well not affect all children, although I think most likely all parents who have children join their family through adoption will be careful about facebook and internet.

If anyone is reading and has a very different situation, please do share, it is very helpful. I hope it is not scaring anyone, I think an open dicussion is helpful.

I must emphasise again for any parents who did not name change that I very much do not have any need to name a child in order to claim them (do not judge those who do) and I can see for some names are part of identity. I think my main issues are accessing the risks with either action and also thinking it all through while I can.

[drspouse]

Yes we do - she knows his first name, and receives photos. It was not a matter of risk, and we probably would have changed his name if she had named him (looking at what she called her older children... and how badly they'd fit in here...)

Strangely it is not an issue at all for overseas adopters to change a child's name even though one of the reasons given for keeping a child's name is usually "identity" and another "culture" and children adopted from overseas would surely be losing both much more than children from the UK.

[Italiangreyhound]

I do think 'fitting in' is really an issue for a child and not just for a family. It really depends (to me) if a name will single a child out for bullying etc. If that is the case then no matter how much the family may love and accept the name, the classmates may make life difficult for them. I wonder if this is less of an issue now? I mean 100 years ago almost everyone in the UK was called Margaret or Pat or Joan or Pam! (Women I mean!) But now there is so much choice.

I know one adult man (non-adoption related) who changed his first name because he just felt it was not him. So clearly a name is not always part of someone's identity. However, I can see a child who has had a lot of upheaval in their life may feel very strange.

As a child I read Kizzy about a traveller child who is moved into a house. When she is washed and scrubbed up the only thing that seems to remain of her old identity is her little gold earring hoops! I must have been about 12 when I read that, over 30 years ago. I wonder if what makes us identify with ourselves may vary.For me it is my hair! It has not changed for 30 years!

[Lilka]

I honestly think that it's incredibly silly for any social services department to just tell all parents "you must never change names because xyz". One solution, one viewpoint....it just doesn't work like that in reality. Impressing one dogmatic view on names doesn't do anything except confuse people or leave them with questions later on

The only sensible thing to do IMHO is to address the legal realities and explain how name changing works (it amazes me that adoptive parents have to ask "how does the name change happen, do we have to deed poll?", I don't understand where SS missed out the 30 second explanation of the legalities), then lead into a frank, and genuine discussion about naming issues - and within that you can express all the potential advantages of NOT changing a name, along with an honest talk about security, facebook, when name changing is necessary, and the benefits of changing names.

Open discussion and gaining multiple viewpoints is way more helpful than a couple of hours being told why name changing must never ever happen no matter the circumstances - which is bollocks

[hollyhunter]

ive been told (in an anecdotally way) by my friends who have adopted that you go to the registry office to register them as your child and a new birth cert is issued

There is nothing to stop you saying for example this was cherry-plum smith her new name is Cheri {insert your surname here}

or even her new name is Meg Ryan.

just be matter of fact about it. you will have the orginal birth cert and her identity will be maintained

good luck

[Lilka]

Actually you don't need to go to a registry office (if you're in England/Wales, that's where my legal knowledge lies)

When you apply for the adoption order, there is a place on the form where you put down the childs name after adoption. You can do anything. Change the name entirely, or keep it entirely, birth surname and all. There's no rule that says you must do this or that. What you write down, is the new name.

Once the order goes through, the court sends off the paperwork to the general registry office, and they record the adoption (in the adopted childrens register) and create a new short birth certificate and adoption certificate (this is often called a long birth certificate, even though it's technically not, and this confuses lots of people). When you, the new parent, recieve the short bc, which you will be sent automatically, there should be an accompanying letter with a form you can use to order the adoption certificate (which you need to get a passport etc) and extra copies of the new short bc if you want it. I got a discount with that form, can't remember how much