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UCU and F2F teaching

148 replies

Pota2 · 31/08/2020 18:05

I haven't seen a thread on this so I thought I would start one. What do people feel about this? I have a very low opinion of UCU so maybe my judgement is clouded by this but does anyone else feel that this sudden objection to F2F teaching which starts in 2 weeks is way too late and is being presented in a ridiculous way?

Instead of protecting its members, UCU have been busy sniping and infighting between their factions over the past few months and haven't really done much about the hundreds that have already lost their jobs. Now comes this announcement, months after they knew that most places were considering some degree of F2F and Jo Grady goes on TV saying that this will be like the care homes (err, despite the 0.0016 death rate for under 25s) and that it will cause 50,000 deaths (when one person died of covid yesterday and few people still obey lockdown rules). I just think it's for show and it paints our entire profession in a bad light by using unscientific nonsense.

I think that online teaching inevitably has issues. I don't feel that it's as good for the students as F2F and I think the fee issue is very real. Is it really fair to charge over £9,000 and then deliver some half-baked online stuff (I know lots of academics are boasting about how great their online teaching and how it's good value is but I've been in webinars with some of them and, um, it's not as great as they think)? And surely these issues will still be here in January (which is when UCU propose we go back? Closing campuses indefinitely is surely not an option if we still want jobs? I think UCU believes that the students are always on our side (like they did during the strike) but I think there will be real anger from students if institutions backtrack after they have already paid their rent deposits.

As I said, maybe my view is clouded by my feelings about the UCU and especially the members of the odious Grady4GS faction, so it would be interesting to hear other views. My institution is doing online lectures and the option for students between socially distanced F2F seminars and online ones. They are risk assessing staff for return to campus. Maybe I am wrong but this seems quite reasonable.

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Pota2 · 05/09/2020 15:37

We also all know that the current government will not bail out universities (even though they should). They will let them go under instead and the cost will be massive.

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Illdealwithitinaminute · 05/09/2020 15:44

I thought this thread was a fairly friendly discussion of the type we are all having in universities right now, I don't see any reason to see it otherwise?

Fundamentally, we do have to weight the risk of academics getting Covid-19 and potentially being very ill against the harms of online learning and in particular the poorer mental health of young people who we are teaching.

There's no right answer in these scenarios, everyone is right to some extent. There is a higher risk of Covid-19 in clustering young people and academics together in face to face teaching; there is also a real risk of continuing the doubling of mental health issues that has occurred during lockdown and students might be very vulnerable to that but so are some academics.

I am worried I'm being used by my university to teach face to face not because it's best for students, but being shovelled in, in large groups, once a week so the students can't claim their money back and they will have to pay for halls. My university isn't just teaching small groups in large rooms and that concerns me greatly. I am happy they have identified the higher risk academics and they won't be required to teach face to face. The sector does need to identify best practice and start working on filling its gaps (the idea everyone is going to be a great online educator is going to be sadly found wanting when the student evaluations roll in...)

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nonsenceagain · 06/09/2020 00:13

We also need to be mindful of the potential impact on local communities of sick students and staff. Most hospitals and GP surgeries just can't accommodate hundreds or even thousands of extra patients.

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moimichme · 10/09/2020 21:41

One of my colleagues (possibly the person I caught it from...) has been off work since April with organ damage from covid - and this was a previously healthy 40 something. Seeding an outbreak at a university here, when we're seeing the U.S. situation, rising infection rates in some areas of Europe and now here too, seems daft. Hmm

There is of course an initial risk of a spike when students first move. After that, it will doubtless subside given that sensible social distancing rules will be followed.

I must have very different students at my university then. SD rules are not being followed now, around here, in that age group! And the small face to face seminar rooms I've been allocated have no windows that open and 1.5 metre distancing for the 14 seats - a lot of good that'll do with no masks in two back to back 2-hour sessions, and a virus that can spread when people aren't symptomatic yet. I want students to wear masks but my institution says not in the classroom. Angry

But yes, it's difficult because of the financial side of our 'industry'. I don't know what the answer is. Sad

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LadyandtheTea · 10/09/2020 22:57

That’s terrible about mask-wearing moimichme and really surprises me. The places I know of (including my own institution) are all pushing for mask wearing anywhere in campus buildings - including classrooms.

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Bingobango69 · 10/09/2020 23:15

Look after yourself moimichme - that sounds hideous. I've heard of social distancing being disregarded at my place and elsewhere already - the idea that students were ever going to stick to prescribed rules out of the classroom is hopelessly naive.

The direction of travel seems to indicate that UCU aren't wrong. I've long thought that the promise of significant/useful in-person teaching was a cruel joke - and that everything will be online with three weeks of term starting. Grateful that my institution bit the bullet on the online teaching front about three months ago.

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ItalianHat · 11/09/2020 16:03

a lot of good that'll do with no masks in two back to back 2-hour sessions

That sounds like a recipe for spreading the virus. Can you at least insist on face masks for everyone? That's what is mandatory at my place. And exemptions much be proven, not just self-identified.

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moimichme · 12/09/2020 09:45

My dept. is making it clear that we expect mask wearing in classrooms, but the uni says no need. So we will have masks available for any student who needs one, but can't tell them they should put one on. A mask is apparently needed in the corridor but not in class. Confused We can at least ask a student to leave if they look visibly unwell (mask or no mask).

On my 3 days on campus recently, I've seen less than 50% compliance from (the very few) staff re: mask wearing in corridors. We don't have to wear them in our single person offices (we're very lucky there). And our VC has not been wearing one, once, when I've seen him in various corridors in our building. So not exactly setting a good example. He thinks it's all overblown and didn't want to lockdown in March until students insisted (despite approaching 70 years old himself). Clearly it's going to be when, not if, there is an outbreak, for my university. I hope I don't catch it and bring it home again. I'm very envious of the good decision making from other institutions and am actively looking for a new job now!

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moimichme · 12/09/2020 09:46

Classrooms were meant to be cleaned between groups, but it's not clear who is going to be doing it. (Me?)

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ItalianHat · 12/09/2020 12:12

Yes! My place expects that staff clean all touchpoints and then require that students clean their seat and desk before they leave.

We’ve long been expected to empty our office bins.

Hell, I don’t do housework at home. Darned if I see why I have to do it at work.

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historyrocks · 12/09/2020 16:34

@Italianhat, same here re. the emptying of bins and having to clean the room after use. Im glad that most of my teaching (apart from 3 x 2 hour seminars) is online.

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ItalianHat · 12/09/2020 18:12

Yes @historyrocks me too. I decided in July - because age & asthma - that I wasn't going to trust my health to 20 year olds who might be responsible, but also might not be. (and it's looking like I was right).

On reading my university's 3 page list of instructions for what I'd have to do at the start and finish of each 50 minute session, I'm quite glad I'm teaching online - it's trebled my hours, but I'm looking forward to the close engagement I'm going to be able to develop by teaching in small groups online - I've divided my specialist research -based seminar into groups of 4-6.

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Mumteedum · 14/09/2020 17:54

Well day 1 induction done. One group had x1 student wear a mask and the rest decide not to bother despite being asked to.

My line manager is yet to give me HR info about higher risk status with asthma.

They're also now realising the online access solutions may not work and are talking about doubling class size. Apparently it's fine. Those risk assessments weren't needed then?

Line manager told me that it wasn't about me when I queried it.

Stressed. Confused

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TheEndisCummings · 14/09/2020 19:59

that sounds shocking - really negligent of your employer. What does your UCU branch say?

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Mumteedum · 14/09/2020 20:30

@TheEndisCummings

that sounds shocking - really negligent of your employer. What does your UCU branch say?

Hoping it may be misunderstanding. Line manager has actually been great so far. Today has been a toughie. Will regroup tomorrow and push forward my solutions and see where we are. But no, not accepting a doubling up easily!
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GCAcademic · 14/09/2020 20:37

DH, who is 60 and has asthma, got a bollocking last week from the faculty Dean (who, btw, will be sitting in his house 200 miles away all term) when he dared to ask what he should do if he turned up to a seminar to find students not wearing a mask. Apparently it would cause a bad atmosphere to ask them to wear them if possible. Can't have a bad atmosphere, can we?

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TheEndisCummings · 15/09/2020 07:54

well the atmosphere will be bad (diseased) anyway, so what does it matter?

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moimichme · 16/09/2020 16:32

I really don't understand why the UK universities think they're so special and what has been happening elsewhere (e.g. the US) couldn't possibly affect us in a similar way. Blended learning is likely to become remote learning very fast once there is an outbreak on campus - but it didn't have to be like this. Sad

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Phphion · 16/09/2020 17:52

In a surprising move, we have heard that the university is going to make wearing a face covering mandatory in all teaching spaces. Students or staff will have to apply confidentially for a special lanyard from the university if they want to be exempt. If a student has no face covering or lanyard, we should ask them to leave.

Interesting to see Justine Mercer elected as UCU VP (President Elect) with a specifically moderate and unaligned platform and no support from either the UCU Left or Jo Grady factions.

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GCAcademic · 16/09/2020 18:30

@moimichme

I really don't understand why the UK universities think they're so special and what has been happening elsewhere (e.g. the US) couldn't possibly affect us in a similar way. Blended learning is likely to become remote learning very fast once there is an outbreak on campus - but it didn't have to be like this. Sad

I doubt they do think that. But they want students on campus paying for accommodation and other things. Many are no doubt facing obliteration if they don't have that income.

My university has now issued guidance on physically-distanced f2f teaching, and it's clear that this is going to be a much inferior experience to online synchronous teaching. There are all kinds of activities which I now won't be able to do in my seminars because of the masks and distancing that would be possible online.

Both my university and DH's currently have Covid cases and the students mainly haven't even arrived yet.
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GCAcademic · 16/09/2020 18:33

Oh, and that is excellent news about Justine Mercer. I'd given up on anyone sensible winning a UCU election. Perhaps it's the start of a push towards having more moderate and experienced representatives. God knows we need it at the moment.

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Bingobango69 · 16/09/2020 18:45

The result in the election wasn't even close in the end - surprised that the two 'machine' candidates were so far behind. Bug social media campaigns didn't translate to votes.

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Bingobango69 · 16/09/2020 18:48

*big, even.

The official announcement from the UCU account was quite ... terse. No congratulations for the winner.

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ItalianHat · 16/09/2020 19:49

it's clear that this is going to be a much inferior experience to online synchronous teaching. There are all kinds of activities which I now won't be able to do in my seminars because of the masks and distancing that would be possible online.

I thought the same at my place - and together with my age & underlying health conditions - I'm so glad I decided a while ago to teach online. I'm teaching a largeish seminar in two smaller groups, and then subdividing those groups into groups of 4 for intensive work on their research projects. They will get a far better experience online than in person.

And if they don't think so, then next term - when I think we'll know netter how to do all of this, they won't ever miss a single face to face session again.

I can dream ...

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Bingobango69 · 16/09/2020 21:01

Anyone see the Birmingham VC's 'return to campus' video? So bad they deleted it from YouTube - can't believe someone thought, actually, this is a great idea.

Not sure I've unclenched after watching it.

streamable.com/amp_player/6kd5s5?__twitter_impression=true

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