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Anti-vaxxers and anti-maskers are often the same people

56 replies

DomDoesWotHeWants · 17/07/2020 07:13

I'm in lots of different facebook groups and follow lots of pages connected to various hobbies and music interests.

I've seen a distinct correlation between ant-vaxxers and those objecting to masks. Is it just an anomaly or are other people finding the same?

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SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito · 17/07/2020 08:12

Even the BBC article on masks cant do more than say that cloth masks "may help prevent" you spreading Covid to others.

And that's if you have it, which is currently less than a 1 in 5,000 chance (office of national statistics). And that figure includes hospitals and care homes, so that actual likelihood that the person in IKEA has it is even lower.

I'm not thick. I understand the benefits of mask wearing - proper masks, properly fitted and worn tightly on the face, not touched while wearing, and disposed of after one use. Those benefits are not the same as a bit of paper or fabric dangling from your ears, worn slung under your chin in the queue or walking from shop to shop, and then fiddled with the entire time you wear it.

I have no problems with people choosing to wear masks. I don't choose to, though. So I will choose to get online supermarket deliveries and avoid the high street.

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DomDoesWotHeWants · 17/07/2020 08:12

I'm asthmatic but have practised wearing one at home and can now tolerate it for a limited time. So I do understand how people feel. But the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few.

I cannot see why they can possibly be compulsory everywhere except it schools. I think they should be compulsory in secondary schools to protect adult staff. I expect it will be introduced because it would be daft not to.

Masks are to protect other people, why would you not do that?

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Sittinonthefloor · 17/07/2020 08:32

Dom - they won’t be introduced in schools, we seriously couldn’t teach in them. Can you imagine if all the newsreaders & people on tv wore them, it would be like that.
It would be interesting to know how many people put them on, wear them, take them off and dispose of/wash them correctly. I would guess it would be almost no one.

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DurhamDurham · 17/07/2020 08:40

I know lots of people who don't want to wear a mask but I don't know any anti-vaxxers (well one FB friend who I know from years back. I'd unfriend her but I find her posts fascinating, she has some v strange views)

When I'm shopping it's the people in gloves and masks that tend to be the ones walking straight up behind me, reaching over me to get something out of the chiller etc. It's like the mask and gloves have given them a false sense of security. A lot of masks don't fit well and you can see people constantly touching their face to adjust their mask. I'll wear one when I have to but I'm not convinced it'll make much difference at this point in the pandemic.
My daughter is a nurse, she wears a mask all day at work and isn't looking forward to having to wear one when she shops next week.

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Drivingdownthe101 · 17/07/2020 08:48

I suppose it depends what you mean by ‘anti mask’. All the people I know who have strong feelings against them for whatever reason have just said that they won’t shop in person or use public transport, which is a valid decision to make and doesn’t put anyone else at risk. I don’t know anyone who has said that don’t like one so will lie about having a condition that exempts them.

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BeingATwatItsABingThing · 17/07/2020 09:11

You can't dictate how people react. There is a huge psychological component to mask wearing and people may feel that they can't breathe even if in reality it's not true.

Telling someone that of course they are getting enough oxygen won't stop their brain panicking and making them feel breathless. I have panic attacks and one of the main issues is that I feel like I can't breathe. Even when I can. I personally don't have a problem with masks and would wear one if essential, but telling people that they are obviously fine because science says so won't overule their brain if it's telling them different.

If people won’t listen to Science and would rather listen to people who spread lies and half truths, then no, you can’t reason with them. I have anxiety so I completely understand not being able to reason with your brain but sharing concerns about oxygen levels when it simply isn’t true is not helpful for anyone. (I know it wasn’t you who originally posted it.)

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DomDoesWotHeWants · 17/07/2020 09:12

@Sittinonthefloor

Dom - they won’t be introduced in schools, we seriously couldn’t teach in them. Can you imagine if all the newsreaders & people on tv wore them, it would be like that.
It would be interesting to know how many people put them on, wear them, take them off and dispose of/wash them correctly. I would guess it would be almost no one.

I'm a retired teacher and I would have insisted on wearing a mask and would want the children to wear them as well. To protect everyone.

I would have been able to teach wearing one, quite easily. I really don't see a problem. We need to protect each other.
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BogRollBOGOF · 17/07/2020 09:34

I'm generally pro vaccination. My children and I accept the vaccinations on offer. As a general, they have a longstanding, proven reputation of reducing disease.

While I strongly dislike the sight of masks because the loss of non-verbal communication combined with the distortion of speech is very difficult when you have auditory processing difficulties, I am not against others wearing them if they feel better about it.
I am also trying my best to keep life as calm and normal as possible for a child with ASD who also struggles masks and faces in a generals sense. He is also prone to anxiety and doesn't need encouragement for life long health anxiety. For him, there won't be a simple switch of back to normal routines, what happens to him now is a blue print for life.

As the statistics stand, I'm not scared of Covid 19. I don't want it and have so far acted responsibly to minimise the chances of passing it on. I have been careful about social distancing and hygiene and spent little time outside my household unit who are also spending little time outside our home, and then at sensibly managed places like the zoo or Nat Trust. The chances of being exposed to the 1:2000+ people in the community (plus not home ill, plus not in a higher previlence neighbourhood) long enough to become infected is very, very small.

I have claustropobia and struggle in warm, humid, stale air. Masks are a double trigger. I have previously had faintness and panic attacks in public places. I have no diagnosis because I can generally manage that with little impediment. I can choose a swimming pool with well lit, airy changing facilities that don't trigger me for example.
But making masks compulsory means that I have to put myself at high risk of a panic atrack just to buy food for my family, or high risk of being challenged by staff or some sanctimonius busy body if claiming an exemption. And for how long? Until next spring 9 months away?

The arbitary timing and abstract way of imposing this rule gives me little confidence in it being purposeful. Back in March/ April, fair enough there were concerns about PPE. But why not in June when non-essential retail opened? In the autum as colds/ flu start, I would also find logical. A random date in July feels like pure politicking against regional powers, not good epidemiological evidence.

I'm already ground down by my life being in suspended animation for 4 months. By not having a healthy social balance. By losing the voluntary roles that make life purposeful. By months of hysteria over non-issues like people exercising for over an hour, or dropping off brownies on a doorstep or buying non-essential easter eggs. Months of seeing people misusing masks and gloves in a way that makes any protective properties redundant. I'm worn down and don't have the energy to battle triggers of my personal issues just to buy food every bloody week. And it's frustrating because getting out of the house and being able to do "normal" things like shopping has been an essential mental lifeline for months and now that's being corrupted too.

(Online shopping is not an easy solution with food intolerances requiring shopping in multiple shops and a child with ASD who is specific about exact brands due to subtle fluctuations in texture and taste)

There has also been a significant amount of ignorant or outright disablist vitriol from many (not all) pro mask enthusiasts who belittle why mask wearing can be very problematic to some. Hardly helpful in the face of issues like anxiety.

(Must fill in the form for DC's flu vaccinations in the autumn...)

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SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito · 17/07/2020 09:36

OP, what kind of mask are you wearing? I'm interested as you keep saying we need to protect each other. Is it a clinical grade mask? If not, why not?

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Clawdy · 17/07/2020 09:39

No link whatsoever. I hate wearing masks, but will if have to. And I'm totally pro vaccination.

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Allflightscancelled · 17/07/2020 09:46

I'm absolutely pro vaccination, but anti mask wearing for me personally, for all the sensible reasons that have already been posted here. Ie I don't see the point of wearing anything except a clinical grade mask AND DOING THAT CORRECTLY, and think it's pointless to introduce these rules now, after four months, and then to say they must be worn on public transport and in shops, but it's OK not to wear them in other circumstances.

I've thought it through and for me, this makes no sense. But if you want to wear one, crack right on. I'm not anti anyone else wearing a mask.

And so for anyone to say, as someone did upthread, both anti vaxers and anti maskers are just a bit thick is absolutely pathetic. Is that the best you've got?

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LilMissRe · 17/07/2020 09:48

I find it interesting how some people I know complain about the 'lack of scientific evidence'

Science moves and changes. New evidence keeps popping up and back in February when this thing was rife in Italy, I posted a video of a South Korean Virologist talking about their strategy for keeping transmission low. Even he said he was confused as to why the west were reluctant to wear them and that they should be wearing them now (Feb).


This is not going to be permanent but so long as we do not have a vaccine rolled out to everyone, or a suitable treatment, a good mask worn properly shouldn't be too much to ask, especially for those customer facing, or in very crowded spaces.

Was ok for our grandparents to wear gas masks during the war so why are people kicking up a fuss-it's only temporary ( but of course, back then, those protected THEM- wearing the mask now protects OTHERS)

I think it is more important now to wear them as there are more bodies wandering around as vessels for the virus. We were in lockdown before, shops and travel were restricted so of course there was less opportunity to transmit the virus. As we ease restrictions, we want to ensure that cases do not spike again.

The virus is still here. There is no vaccine yet, the test and trace needs tweaking and the cold damp weather is round the corner. What's more, a majority of the population have not had the virus-yet. So better be safe and sorry.

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LilMissRe · 17/07/2020 09:51

I will add that the friends that I know that won't wear masks are not anti vaxxers, but they are libertarians and hate being dictated to

(Even though they voted for the clown and his circus who have made this mandatory)

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LilMissRe · 17/07/2020 09:52

safe than sorry *

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Allflightscancelled · 17/07/2020 09:56

Even though they voted for the clown and his circus who have made this mandatory

So now people who don't want to wear masks are all tory voters? FFS

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otterturk · 17/07/2020 09:56

There are a few similar threads to this today.

I'm not keen on masks so will shop less. It's a personal choice; they're uncomfortable especially while pregnant so hot and flustered anyway and I'll avoid where possible. The decision affects only me.

However I will vaccinate my child because I'm not an unreasonable wanker who hates science.

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iamusuallybeingunreasonable · 17/07/2020 09:57

Rubbish, I'm pro vax and anti mask... because vaccination is usually tried and tested by science, and use of masks whilst scientifically useful, is being driven by a shite government, clutching at straws (late straws at that)... the worst bit, pubs are full round here, not a mask in sight, it's all hillocks, sorry

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iamusuallybeingunreasonable · 17/07/2020 10:02

All bollocks rather, also most of the masks being worn do t stop a god damn thing, sub grade.

Remember WW2 when people were issued with gas masks?

If they are making it mandatory, they should be providing us all with at least a three pack of high grade reusable masks,but they're not...

Everyone is walking round with a patch of fashion fabric on that won't save a god damn soul

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DomDoesWotHeWants · 17/07/2020 10:08

@SirSamuelVimesBlackboardMonito

OP, what kind of mask are you wearing? I'm interested as you keep saying we need to protect each other. Is it a clinical grade mask? If not, why not?

Yes, clinical grade
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LilMissRe · 17/07/2020 10:09

@Allflightscancelled

Even though they voted for the clown and his circus who have made this mandatory

So now people who don't want to wear masks are all tory voters? FFS

Err no. Just my friends. Not all people. I didn't say all people. This was an anecdote not fact or a sweeping judgement made about everyone.
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Paradiseinportugal · 17/07/2020 10:11

I wear one because it's the law here, it's uncomfortable and as the temperature rises it's going to get more uncomfortable. 37 degrees here yesterday.
I resent and dislike abusive idiots, like the ones on this thread who berate and insult those who don't want to wear one.
Equating refusal to wear a mask with anti vaxxers is irresponsible and bullying behaviour. Calling people names and insulting them is just bullying. You're hiding your bullying behaviour behind your virtue signalling.

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MarshaBradyo · 17/07/2020 10:15

Paradise do you have exemptions in Portugal as we do here?

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BogRollBOGOF · 17/07/2020 10:34

@iamusuallybeingunreasonable

All bollocks rather, also most of the masks being worn do t stop a god damn thing, sub grade.

Remember WW2 when people were issued with gas masks?

If they are making it mandatory, they should be providing us all with at least a three pack of high grade reusable masks,but they're not...

Everyone is walking round with a patch of fashion fabric on that won't save a god damn soul

Added to that, while a gas mask would feel very unpleasant, it would aid breathing for a temporary period compared to breathing in poison gas like chlorine. They were also carried around in case of use, not worn routinely when leaving the house.

As it happened, there weren't any gas attacks in the UK anyway.
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Sittinonthefloor · 17/07/2020 10:35

Dom - I do think my teaching would be impaired wearing masks. Lots of the children I teach have sen and would find it difficult. Lots of children are anxious/ claustrophobic (just like the adults in the thread. Personally I find it difficult to hear people in masks so that be tricky. I wouldn’t be able to see who’s talking or if someone looks like they need some help. The children may not be able to hear me properly or read my expression. I wouldn’t be able to smile at them especially the new y7s who would never have seen my face. It would be v hard to learn their names too.

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Drivingdownthe101 · 17/07/2020 10:42

I think it’s the thought policing about it that bothers me.
If someone says ‘I’m anti mask so I won’t go anywhere that requires one’, or ‘I’m anti mask but will wear one because it’s mandatory’ that should be enough for people. Thinking anti mask thoughts isn’t putting anyone else at risk. However on MN and IRL I’ve seen people being criticised for saying they find them uncomfortable/distressing so will do their shopping online, for example. It’s not enough that they avoid situations where they have to wear them, they have to change their thoughts about them too.
I physically can’t wear a mask, I have severe panic attacks so can’t have anything on my face. That’s fine, I intend to avoid shops and public transport for the foreseeable. There’s nothing I need that I can’t buy online anyway. I’ve been told on here that should be trying a variety of different masks/having counselling etc so that I can wear one, so that I can go out and spend money in non essential shops while wearing one in order to help the high street.

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