Do we need to "Save the High Street"?

[Agnesf]

If shopping habits have changed and there are too many shops, why not allow a managed contraction of town centres and reuse the empty shops for housing.

[DGRossetti]

@Agnesf - because where I live there has been tens of thousands of new houses and flats built and 99% of them have been luxury apartment complexes. Most property in our town is owned by the cathedral and buying within the 'city walls' where the shops are is for the very wealthy only.

Naturally. Who wants poor people ? "City Living" is simply a code for "wealthy singles and couples only".

The only upside is the struggle these places are having getting decent staff - after all if your cleaner can't afford to live nearby, or travel in, you clean yourself.

[WhentheRabbitsWentWild]

I agree with the point of view of DGRossetti

I have a book , offshoot of a TV series about The High Street (filmed in Sheppten Mallet I think) from the 1900s to the 80s I think it was .
Anyway, at the back of the book is the future of our High Street . They seemed to think with the advent of large industrial areas that house supermarkets, currys, IKEA kind of places, and Internet shopping that that is the future .

[WhentheRabbitsWentWild]

I also agree with whomever said it will be homes for £££s , as is usual, it seems, in my two local towns .

[Kazzyhoward]

The "High Street" shopping was a recent thing anyway. Up to the 70s/80s people lived and worked in town centres - there were factories, warehouses, breweries, print works, etc alongside shops and houses. It was really the 80s when people started moving out of town centres along with industry, and retail took over. Now, of course, the internet and out of town shopping has taken over, leaving the town centres in a vacuum. Realistically, the domination of retail in the High Street will never come back, so it's a waste of time, effort and money to try to save the High Street as we know it. It needs to be transitioned into whatever the new town centre model looks like, presumably a mix of homes, leisure with far smaller shopping. The next phase of retail evolution will most probably be continuing the trend back to more "local" shops, i.e. convenience stores etc in housing areas (Obviously not like there used to be, i.e. shops on every corner before the supermarkets forced them to close!).

[DGRossetti]

The "High Street" shopping was a recent thing anyway.

I'd argue it's a bit older ... you can see the development of the "High Street" (along with the name) around the 1700s ? Certainly by Victorian times it was well established.

Before that, "shops" were really houses with a front room for trade - hence the very deep-to-the-back layout of a lot of properties of that age.

The Romans had shops too - again generally with accommodation for the owner/workers.

[FyiYolo]

I'd also argue that my rights are much better protected as a distance buyer online, than in the shops themselves.
If I change my mind, I can return with online purchases, but, you need a reason to return many things from shops, like, it's faulty.
I can even return kindle books if they are shit. No bookshop is going to take a book back cos I hate the protagonist.

[DGRossetti]

I'd also argue that my rights are much better protected as a distance buyer online, than in the shops themselves.

Given how it was (and still is from some reports) SOP for some shops to just go "deal with the manufacturer" (Comet were the worst) in the event of a fault, that's a definite bonus.

Not sure of the status of "click'n'collect" purchases where payment is taken in store though ?

[Kazzyhoward]

I'd argue it's a bit older ... you can see the development of the "High Street" (along with the name) around the 1700s ? Certainly by Victorian times it was well established.

Yes, but I was meaning where the High Street has nothing but shops, i.e. the 70s/80s. Before then people lived above the shops, there were workplaces dispersed within the shops, there were rows of housing in yards/lanes behind the shops, etc. In our town, we had a print works and a brewery on the "high street" which were demolished to make way for more shops in the 70s.

[DGRossetti]

Ah, I see ... yes the development of the more chain-store high street as opposed to the unique different-in-every-town high street. (Which was controversial in it's time too ....)

[Jinglejanglefish]

I don’t think it needs to be saved. Use it for housing or knock it down and have nice green spaces. Yes it would be nice if the high street had interesting independent shops and restaurants but most don’t, it’s just the same old shitty shops. Parking is stressful and expensive. Honestly why bother.

[SinisterBumFacedCat]

I still enjoy shopping in the high street but it’s going downhill and that’s a shame. It’s healthier to physically walk around the shops and gives opportunity for single and older people to interact. A lot of people still don’t buy from the internet mainly older people. I miss the joy of physically browsing in a shop compared to the utter boredom of scrolling through pages online, fine if you are looking for something specific but you rarely stumble on something by chance. I make jewellery, ten years ago I would go into London and have 5 shops in Soho area to browse for beads, now the last one closed in 2017. Sounds sad but I really miss those shops! So I don’t make special trips up there, meaning I don’t pay for travel, or buy lunch in a cafe, or wander into a bookshop afterwards so more places are loosing my custom. So, in the high street if one shop goes, the knock on effect is felt throughout the rest of the shops. Plus there is also the supply chain that suffers if the shop closes, not just the staff, the delivery companies, suppliers, shop fitters, security. It’s not a level playing field, 2 Debenhams stores paid more in business taxes in one year than the whole of Amazon!
I think if we loose the High Street then we will miss it and try to reanimate it, but it will ultimately end up looking like a cheap imitation of what it was, like a gift shop for the past. Brewers Quay in Weymouth is a good example of this, the trip advisor page says it all.

[SinisterBumFacedCat]

Also tourist towns and villages tend to have busy high streets, it shows people still enjoy physically shopping for leisure. And they are much more aesthetically pleasing than the soulless out of town malls.

[Agnesf]

I think the point about developers wanting to make profit on new homes is not unique to the redevelopment of high streets. Its just a general point.

In fact in a town near me the shopping area offers a great opportunity to develop affordable (dare I say council owned) housing as the council bought the shopping centre at a knock down price.

I'm pleased that people seem to be agreeing with me because I can't understand why policy makers seem to think its such an issue. I agree - rather than clinging to the past lets move on.

The high street could embrace online by providing collection/ display points for online retailers. It could still be a social hub but centred around different things like cafes/ leisure activities/ community centres/ voluntary organisations like CAB etc.

[Agnesf]

I agree about tourist towns etc providing an enjoyable shopping experience. But where I live most people just live there and commute to elsewhere to work. No one would go there on a "day out"

If the shopping centre had some "home-working" facilities - with good broadband, printers, other office stuff, people could walk to work there, commute less, support the local cafe at lunchtime etc. Its a win win.

There are lots of older people where I live but they mostly go to the shops for food & the pharmacy & the haidressers. I rarely see them in any of the other shops which don't really cater to older people anyway.

[littlemeitslyn]

'Whomever' No

[ArmchairTraveller]

If I want to spend my weekend shopping ‘on the high st’, I go to somewhere interesting to me, like Brighton or Lewes. I need more than just chain stores to get me into a town. It’s why I don’t go to Crawley.
The other point that’s already been made is that most of us are at work when the shops are open. It’s why I shop at supermarkets rather than trotting round a dozen small shops to find everything.

[StealthPolarBear]

Really interesting thread. Shopping as a leisure activity has moved into put of town shopping malls. When we go into town we usually go for a wander round, possibly a visit to the cathedral, a coffee or a meal.
I rember pre Internet shopping days going out Christmas shopping and it was hell. Nowhere to park and you were at the mercy of what the shops stocked. Christmas shopping is so much less stressful online.
However I'd like to see centre rejuvenated and some shops to remain including shoe shops - I cannot buy them without trying on, and I also like to browse in bookshops, although I tend to buy ony ipad, there must be a way to combine this. Plus other shops that are good for browsing.

[Spudlet]

I think there needs to be added value if you're going to travel to a place. So for example, I'd always buys bras from a shop offering fitting services, or running trainers from a specialist shop that does gait analysis. Or makeup from a counter with a person to help me choose colours and try samples.

You can't expect people to travel to buy something they could get online in a moment, unless you can offer something extra, imo.

The other big draw for me is independent shops - I like poking around those sorts of places and would choose to support one over a chain. We have an excellent old-school hardware shop in our local market town and I make a special effort to go there for bits I could but online because they're great - they can always offer advice and they're really helpful. I bought a bag of sandpit sand last year and they insisted on carrying it to the car for me (I had DS with me but I could probably have made it!). That sort of service is priceless, IMO. That's what makes the high street worth going to. The high street needs more of that if it's to survive.

[SinisterBumFacedCat]

Also retail has a predominantly female workforce, many working part time. The high street disappearing would have an enormous impact on them.

[Budsbegginingspringinsight]

I'd be interested to know what it's like in other parts of the world eg Spain.. where people can shop till Very late!

Not like many women are sahms these day's to shop whilst men at work... Seems better to change opening hours... and have all day Sunday opening too

[artisticpiles]

I can't buy clothes and shoes without trying them on either, and have yet to manage to buy any clothes online that have actually fitted me. And then it is a right pain in the arse to send them back.

Give me a load of shops where I can try stuff on - at least that way I can try 20 or 30 different things and actually come home with something that suits me. And I'll get accessories to match whilst I'm at it.

You can also tell whether things are good, bad or indifferent quality if you have it in your hand.

[Bearchild]

Parking is also a real issue, we have terrible. public transport so have to pay £££ to park in our local town, a near by town has free or a lot cheaper parking and is therefore a lot busier.

[MattMagnolia]

We have terrible public transport too and very many older people. They have to use local shops once they give up driving, their families are living away or working so not available to help.
My older friends and relatives tend to shop very frequently, they can’t do a big shop on foot. This is not a village, there are thousands of residents who need the post office, banks, pharmacy, library, places to buy books and gifts and a choice of supermarkets.

[IAimToMisbehave]

The only problem with longer hours, given that retail has a predominantly female workforce is, what would the impact of longer hours be on family life, childcare issues etc.

As a consumer I'd welcome longer hours, but can't help think it would have a negative impact elsewhere.

[ThereWillBeAdequateFood]

I think you are right op. There’s no point trying to “save” the high street of 10-20 years ago. Far better to let it shrink down to a more sensible size.