Do we need to "Save the High Street"?

[Agnesf]

If shopping habits have changed and there are too many shops, why not allow a managed contraction of town centres and reuse the empty shops for housing.

[tentative3]

Even the shops that offer something 'different' are subject to the whims of those who want everything cheaper. I've witnessed a few people in our local independent trainer shop come in, get their gait analysed, go through loads of pairs of shoes to get the fit just right and then tell the assistant that they'll come back another time/after payday/when they've had lunch etc to buy them. It's clear they have no intention of returning to buy them from that shop. And yet when that shop closes and all they're left with is sports direct who couldn't give less of a fuck about what trainers they buy, they'll be the ones whining about the high street dying. It really pisses me off.

@Asta19 I used to live in a different big city in Asia and agree that the retail climate seems totally different. Stores would be open until late at night, sometimes until the early hours in some cases. There were chain shops, for sure, but also room for smaller shops. We also enjoyed some of the shops in Amsterdam, where again there were plenty of chain stores but also plenty of independents. We found a cracking lighting store and spent ages in there, before buying a lovely light to bring home with us.

[IWannaSeeHowItEnds]

Yy to Clarks, especially with children's shoes. No I don't want to order online and pay for shoes for dd where there's a good chance they won't be suitable.
Went in to buy DD new school boots recently. They didn't have one pair of boots - it was around the time of the snow, but Clarks don't think it's worth stocking winter shoes for kids!

[Kazzyhoward]

Shops really have to offer something different/better than online if they are to survive. Yet, they seem to be doing the opposite.

Take Clarks shoes - used to have a decent product range and most sizes in all their shops. Now, our local shop havn't had the range/size we've wanted the last few times we've been in. Always the same - they say to order online and get it delivered to the store! Why? Far easier just to order online for home delivery in the first place or go to other shops that actually have stock. I expect Clarks will start closing stores before long as we really don't bother going there these days.

[Agnesf]

it's nice to be able to try on but stocks rarely hold the stock - I mean shops rarely hold enough stock

[Agnesf]

I tend to agree about the clothes/ shoes shopping issues - it's nice to be able to try on but stocks rarely hold the stock but then its hassle to order stuff online and have to send back again.

Plus I don't think online shopping have a very good for the environment - all that packaging and vans going everywhere. I've often wondered whether there could be some kind of in between arrangement - a kind of clothes trying on place.

You order a load of stuff online - it gets delivered to your local "clotherie". You can pop in when you go into town (for coffee/ supermarket shop) & try on all the different things, keep what you want and the "clotherie" send the rest back to the retailer warehouse.

I take the point about out of hours shopping but maybe it would actually suit some people better - for example shop worker married to office worker - easier to share child care.

Obvs its not going to work so well for single parents but it could actually be better for them in school hols as they could be home in the day time.

[DGRossetti]

One of the things I love about Tokyo is it's divided into areas, much like London boroughs, but you have places that are known as "kitchen town" and "fabric town" almost each area has something different to the others

Birmingham has the gay quarter ...

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birmingham_Gay_Village

[Asta19]

Personally, I don't want to go abroad and see exactly the same shops and products as I saw at home

I agree with this completely. It's all too samey now. One of the things I love about Tokyo is it's divided into areas, much like London boroughs, but you have places that are known as "kitchen town" and "fabric town" almost each area has something different to the others. If you take out central London, there's very little to tell the other boroughs apart.

A lot of Japanese shops change stock frequently (I noticed this when I spent a few months there). So it is more interesting. I'd imagine the Japanese have just as much access to online shopping as we do but all their shopping areas are thriving. When I lived there I was a good distance out of central Tokyo, roughly equal to maybe being in Milton Keynes as opposed to London. But the local shopping area was always busy. And yes they do all stay open late. 9pm is the usual closing time in Suburban areas I noticed, can be later in central Tokyo.

[DGRossetti]

There's also a viscous spiral where reduced take from rents drives landlords to up the remaining rents. That leads to a game of musical units as shops leverage break clauses to move to cheaper units.

Then you have your pop-up shops and permanent non-shop retailers ...

[SmarmyMrMime]

Ultimately, derlict High Streets have a huge amount to do with grossly inflated land prices.

Shops struggle against online prices when they have to pay premium rents. Shoppers go elsewhere.

Land is expensive to redevelop. This is why redevelopment schemes are pitched at the executive urban living, or high rise student lettings end of the market.

In my town, we suffered the double whammy of a glitzy shopping centre opening just as the economic bubble was about to pop, so there is a glut of vacant larger properties from the move into the shopping centre. Some units have been empty or subject to unstable short term tenancies for a decade. They may be used sucessfully on other levels. Some are parts of larger buildings, so dealing with ownership is difficult. Some older buildings have architectural merit but aren't suited for adaption to residential. Residents of a town centre may not need a car themselves but do need some level of vehicular access. Parks and open space would be very welcome but have no economic benefit which sadly is the God of revedelopments. There isn't the public money to invest in redevelopments focused on social benefit. Larger town centres often lack the local social infrastructure that residents need, local schools, GPs.

I find I tend to shop online as I want specialist items that aren't avaliable on the High St. I favour the High St for clothing and shoes, but rarely buy them and often pick up basics in supermarkets.

[DGRossetti]

Overall retail spending (i.e. High Street PLUS internet) is increasing, so there is more being spent

So not on mortgages then ....

[Kazzyhoward]

people having less money to spend

Overall retail spending (i.e. High Street PLUS internet) is increasing, so there is more being spent. Online spending is increasing at a higher rate than the High St spending is reducing.

[DGRossetti]

A pp mentioned people having less money to spend, but is there also a creeping desire to actually actually spend less?

There's not much "new" right now. The difference between a world with no iPhone and iPhone is massive. The difference between a world with an iPhone whatever and iPhone whatever+1 isn't. Same for a lot of stuff.

I'm guessing from the demographics of conurbations that there's been a massive shift of spending from "things" to "events". So rather than buying the latest iShiny, people are choosing to meet up, have a coffee, do lunch, go to a gig. Which is a direct result of Generation Rent (like DS ) who have worked out they'll never buy a house, so why bother saving ? What's happening to the High Street is simply a reflection of what's happening in society.

And as we know every society is nowhere near as good as the one before ....

[queribus]

I agree with the OP - I'm not sure there's much point in trying to save the high street generally.

A pp mentioned people having less money to spend, but is there also a creeping desire to actually actually spend less? We are apparently on the brink of environmental disaster - perhaps people are starting to think they don't need more 'stuff', that good waste is rife and shopping as a leisure activity is dying?

[DGRossetti]

Amazon do 2-hour delivery for some stuff in my neighbourhood. Plus Sunday and late (10pm) deliveries.

[tentative3]

But of course I buy books because they are cheaper. The high street can be saved but it has to start offering things you can't get easily online, for less money

It's very difficult for bricks and mortar stores to compete on price. Some people don't have the money to have the choice available to them but for the rest of us I think we need to look a little closer to home; you can't have the cheapest prices and bricks and mortar stores, so use it or lose it.

This is a complete load of anecdata so please don't think I'm making pronouncements but when we moved back to the UK 6 years ago we were amazed at the prevalence of online shopping, for absolutely everything, and the quick delivery times. Where we had been living had, and still has (last time we were there) nothing approaching that level of online shopping culture, although it is increasing. Our high streets are also so homogeneous that as others have said, there's little benefit to going elsewhere to shop in the UK, with a few exceptions. Again, this is not the case in other places although globalisation is changing that and we've noticed other countries catching up in recent years. Personally, I don't want to go abroad and see exactly the same shops and products as I saw at home but others must feel differently.

I live in the city centre and ours is not doing too badly, although it is woeful for independent shops. There's been an increase in eateries, which is presumably keeping people coming into the city centre but I can't see there's much space left in the market so what will fill the remaining empty spaces I don't know. Our council are shite, so I doubt they'd have the foresight to look into turning them into residential.

[DGRossetti]

I can’t ever see my children saying “mum I’m going up town to meet my mates.”

Whereas for DS, it's the only time he goes into town for leisure.

[Widowodiw]

There won’t be a need for a high street as our children will do online shopping as that’s what they will be used too. I can’t ever see my children saying “mum I’m going up town to meet my mates.” Which I think is a good thing, I’d rather they be doing other things. The high street doesn’t have to be turned just into housing it could be a mixture of offices for small businesses, housing, leisure.

[IWannaSeeHowItEnds]

I think part of the problem is also availability of stock and customer service. If my watching machine breaks I want to go to a high st shop , buy a new one and have it delivered at my convenience. There are very few places which offer that level of service now. Or you want to buy a new top, but the shop only stocks a few size sixes and a 22. If you want anything else you have to order it from their website.
I literally never buy my clothes online. I need to try them on first. But of course I buy books because they are cheaper. The high street can be saved but it has to start offering things you can't get easily online, for less money. I truly believe there is still a place for clothes shopping but there needs to be variety and availability for the customer.

[HelenaDove]

i think we need to stop ignoring the elephant in the room. A lot of ppl have not got the money to spend and that is having a knock on effect.

[ThereWillBeAdequateFood]

I think you are right op. There’s no point trying to “save” the high street of 10-20 years ago. Far better to let it shrink down to a more sensible size.

[IAimToMisbehave]

The only problem with longer hours, given that retail has a predominantly female workforce is, what would the impact of longer hours be on family life, childcare issues etc.

As a consumer I'd welcome longer hours, but can't help think it would have a negative impact elsewhere.

[MattMagnolia]

We have terrible public transport too and very many older people. They have to use local shops once they give up driving, their families are living away or working so not available to help.
My older friends and relatives tend to shop very frequently, they can’t do a big shop on foot. This is not a village, there are thousands of residents who need the post office, banks, pharmacy, library, places to buy books and gifts and a choice of supermarkets.

[Bearchild]

Parking is also a real issue, we have terrible. public transport so have to pay £££ to park in our local town, a near by town has free or a lot cheaper parking and is therefore a lot busier.

[artisticpiles]

I can't buy clothes and shoes without trying them on either, and have yet to manage to buy any clothes online that have actually fitted me. And then it is a right pain in the arse to send them back.

Give me a load of shops where I can try stuff on - at least that way I can try 20 or 30 different things and actually come home with something that suits me. And I'll get accessories to match whilst I'm at it.

You can also tell whether things are good, bad or indifferent quality if you have it in your hand.

[Budsbegginingspringinsight]

I'd be interested to know what it's like in other parts of the world eg Spain.. where people can shop till Very late!

Not like many women are sahms these day's to shop whilst men at work... Seems better to change opening hours... and have all day Sunday opening too