JK Rowling article

[DrDreReturns]

Interesting read. I know it's from a Conservative site but it seems only the right are gender critical at the moment.

www.conservativehome.com/highlights/2022/03/profile-j-k-rowling-striving-to-stop-starmer-nailing-his-colours-to-the-fence-on-trans.html

[ElaineFuchs]

I find it very concerning that the gender critical movement is so closely aligned with people wishing to roll back abortion rights, promote misogynistic viewpoints and homophobia.

I don't think that every GC believes in this things of course, but there is a worrying overlap.

(full disclaimer, I am not GC)

[SantaCarlaCalifornia]

@ElaineFuchs

I find it very concerning that the gender critical movement is so closely aligned with people wishing to roll back abortion rights, promote misogynistic viewpoints and homophobia.

I don't think that every GC believes in this things of course, but there is a worrying overlap.

(full disclaimer, I am not GC)

If you're into guilt by association, you should be looking at who you align yourself with. There's plenty of dodginess within your side.

Personally, I don't believe that agreeing with one thing one person says means that you endorse everything they say.

[ElaineFuchs]

Certainly it's possible to share some opinions and causes with those who hold reprehensible opinions. I would never begrudge anyone for merely sharing an opinion like that.

What worries me is when people share/promote/platform those with horrible views because they happen to share a different common cause; this is especially bad when it's shared to a huge following.

For the specific case of transphobia being a common thread between GC and the Conservative right, I think there are deeper reasons (I'm not saying that every GC is aware of this of course!).

[ScreamingMeMe]

@ElaineFuchs

I find it very concerning that the gender critical movement is so closely aligned with people wishing to roll back abortion rights, promote misogynistic viewpoints and homophobia.

I don't think that every GC believes in this things of course, but there is a worrying overlap.

(full disclaimer, I am not GC)

Not this again.

Here's a little list for you. I will be adding anothet name to it: Vaush a Youtuber who thinks CSA material should not be illegal. He was recently platformed by Owen Jones.

To use your logic, your side is aligned with a heck of a lot of abusers and paedophiles.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4013710-The-Dark-Side-of-Some-of-Those-Supporting-Self-ID

[ScreamingMeMe]

For the specific case of transphobia being a common thread between GC and the Conservative right, I think there are deeper reasons (I'm not saying that every GC is aware of this of course!).

Is it, aye? Got anything to back that up?

[ElaineFuchs]

Here's a good example, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505380-Matt-Walsh-Again

Matt Walsh is an ultra conservative scumbag, but because he shares views with GCs about trans people he's being given posts here and tolerated. Regardless of what he says about trans people, this is terrible for progressing women's rights and the fight for equality.

[ElaineFuchs]

"Here's a little list for you. I will be adding anothet name to it: Vaush a Youtuber who thinks CSA material should not be illegal. He was recently platformed by Owen Jones.

To use your logic, your side is aligned with a heck of a lot of abusers and paedophiles."

I would never defend vaush and his misogyny, his misogynistic attacks are reprehensible and an attack on all women. The same goes for any abuser, I would never give them a platform or promote their work, even if they have symphetic views towards trans liberation. That's the difference.

[MidsomerMurmurs]

Oh for goodness' sake. Massively entrenched misogyny is pretty reprehensible. Go and tell The Guardian to get its house in order, perhaps?

[nepeta]

@ElaineFuchs

I find it very concerning that the gender critical movement is so closely aligned with people wishing to roll back abortion rights, promote misogynistic viewpoints and homophobia.

I don't think that every GC believes in this things of course, but there is a worrying overlap.

(full disclaimer, I am not GC)

It is easy to explain by a hypothetical example: The Klu Klux Klan and the NAACP both need a name for the Black race, so they would both be opposed to attempts to erase all names that can be used for that purpose. BUT the reasons why they would be opposed to such an attempt are polar opposites.

This is how I see the current situation: Anti-feminists need a name for the group they wish to subjugate and gender-critical feminists need a name for the group they wish to defend from that subjugation.

[ScreamingMeMe]

@ElaineFuchs

Here's a good example, www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/4505380-Matt-Walsh-Again

Matt Walsh is an ultra conservative scumbag, but because he shares views with GCs about trans people he's being given posts here and tolerated. Regardless of what he says about trans people, this is terrible for progressing women's rights and the fight for equality.

That's not what I asked you. Do you want to try again?

*"That's not what I asked you. Do you want to try again?

Quote:

"For the specific case of transphobia being a common thread between GC and the Conservative right, I think there are deeper reasons (I'm not saying that every GC is aware of this of course!)."*

[Helleofabore]

I cannot believe that we have yet another poster posting this tired and worn out old trope. It really only shows just who is part of those pushing the agenda of the gender identity.

Shall we start with Peter Tatchell? Or Grace Lavery? Or maybe Chou? or any other of the prominent campaigners on this?

I mean it really does make for enlightening reading for those following along. That thread on the 'dark side' is worrying enough.

[ScreamingMeMe]

@ElaineFuchs

*"Here's a little list for you. I will be adding anothet name to it: Vaush a Youtuber who thinks CSA material should not be illegal. He was recently platformed by Owen Jones.

To use your logic, your side is aligned with a heck of a lot of abusers and paedophiles."*

I would never defend vaush and his misogyny, his misogynistic attacks are reprehensible and an attack on all women. The same goes for any abuser, I would never give them a platform or promote their work, even if they have symphetic views towards trans liberation. That's the difference.

Where have any of us defended any of Matt Walsh's other views? Some of us have quote specifically said they don't agree with him on those issues.

[VestofAbsurdity]

I find it very concerning that the gender critical movement is so closely aligned with people wishing to roll back abortion rights, promote misogynistic viewpoints and homophobia.

Oh please the Gender Identity side is awash with blatant homophobia and is determined to roll back the rights and acceptance of homosexuals in society. Homosexuals are same sex attracted not same gender attracted and to say anything else is homophobic.

Gender Identity is misogynistic and sexist to it's very core.

[Whingasaurus]

Oh look another successful derail

[ElaineFuchs]

@ScreamingMeMe

For the specific case of transphobia being a common thread between GC and the Conservative right, I think there are deeper reasons (I'm not saying that every GC is aware of this of course!).

Is it, aye? Got anything to back that up?

I think lots can be explained by looking it as a new generation of homophobic (to clarify, I'm not calling anyone specifically a homophobe) bias. There are many repeated arguments "gay/trans people are unsafe to be around children", "lesbians/trans women aren't safe in women's toilets", "gay contagion, ROGD", it's "unnatural". At it's heart, it's a mix of wanting to uphold the patriarchy and using hate against these minorities as a wedge issue to further political goals. (to be clear, I think lots of GCs would be very upset to think they are working to uphold the patriarchy, which we should all all be fighting together to dismantle).

For some interesting examples, JKR has been quoted by republican politicians in defence of hateful legislation recently.

[ScreamingMeMe]

And you might not promote Vaush, but Owen Jones, who has millions of followers did. Possibly he has since denounced Vaush but I wouldn't know as he has most of us blocked.

And some of the people in the thread have had actual influence on policy.

[Helleofabore]

Oh. right. So we are not allowed to point out the abusers in those pushing this agenda, but we are all painted as the followers of evangelical conservatives.

Rather than taking the mature approach that in every opinion in life, some people will agree and some will not. And where they agree, they may only agree on one issue and even then, on one aspect of the issue.

And that mentioning what the person who has brought up a valid point is not actually 'following' or 'amplifying' that person, it is merely discussing the point.

[Helleofabore]

Oh.... and there is the old 'trans rights = gay rights' false equivolence as well.

[ScreamingMeMe]

For some interesting examples, JKR has been quoted by republican politicians in defence of hateful legislation

And? What was the quote? What is the "hateful legislation"?

[ElaineFuchs]

@ScreamingMeMe

And you might not promote Vaush, but Owen Jones, who has millions of followers did. Possibly he has since denounced Vaush but I wouldn't know as he has most of us blocked.

And some of the people in the thread have had actual influence on policy.

I don't know much about Owen Jones. If he has done something horrible then I would honestly like to know.

[ScreamingMeMe]

You know what, I'm short in temper and time for this bullshit today. I'm off to Bunbury. Sorry everyone for helping to derail the thread, which no doubt was the intention.

[334bu]

What about Gordon Pike, one of the people who drew up the policy for including male prisoners who identify as women into the Scottish female prison estate; a policy which has resulted in 12 legally male prisoners, some of whom were convicted of sexual offences against women and children, being placed in female prisons.?
Does this mean everyone who supports trans people is a paedophile because Pike has been convicted of possessing thousands of photos etc of children being sexually abused?

[DomesticatedZombie]

lots of GCs would be very upset to think they are working to uphold the patriarchy, which we should all all be fighting together to dismantle

No desire to 'work with' anyone trying to gaslight, smear, and impugn women, thanks.

[VestofAbsurdity]

I would never defend vaush and his misogyny, his misogynistic attacks are reprehensible and an attack on all women. The same goes for any abuser, I would never give them a platform or promote their work, even if they have symphetic views towards trans liberation. That's the difference.

Yet one of your greatest champions Owen Jones does perhaps you would like to make your point to him?

Note how carped on about Vaush's misogyny and then only belatedly mentioned the CSA aspect which was what Screaming drew your attention to, strange that.