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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

OP posts:
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Italiangreyhound · 01/01/2019 11:52

That is such a sad story.

I hope she does find happiness and love.

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TheOnlyLivingBoyInNewCross · 01/01/2019 11:53

Clicky link?

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papayasareyum · 01/01/2019 11:59

that's really sad. I wonder what kind of life she would have had if she'd not had reassignment surgery and had come to terms with who she was. What her Dad said is considered horribly un pc, but he was absolutely right. Thats pretty much the best they can do. From what I understand, from reading in depth on this subject, most people who have SRS experience post op complications and that doesn't even touch on the emotional/psychological toll. This surgery should be an absolute last resort after many many years of counselling and over the age of 21-25 only.

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Vegilante · 01/01/2019 12:21
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R0wantrees · 01/01/2019 12:35

Following from the title of the OP, there was a very moving series of articles interviewing a woman who wanted to share the catastrophic consequences of medical interventions to 'transition' without the cause of her deep-seated trauma being identified.

Many people who have been diagnosed with gender dysphoria might have been better helped by the medical profession if other very relevent factors were identified and nuanced support was available for these.

Abuse, childhood trauma, homophobia etc seem often also present in people's stories. If this is the case, contextualising it as transgenderism/transsexualism lessens the possibility of healing from what may be the source/s of the dysphoria.

I was so struck by Debbie's story. She was diagnosed with gender dysphoria, underwent full medical transition without her PTSD as a result of being sexually abused as a child being identified.

Mirror November 2018 (also in Mail)
(extract)
"After undergoing years of counselling, he says he has finally discovered he wasn't transgender. Instead, he says, he was a woman suffering with horrific complex PTSD after years of sexual abuse.

"Looking back now I realise that it was simply a feeling that if I didn't have a vagina, I couldn't be raped," he revealed.

"I feel completely 'mutilated'," he added.

He has spoken out on the 'taboo' subject of gender reassignment reversal to encourage others to seek talking therapy before surgery.

He says he should never have been allowed to transition, claiming sexual abuse sparked his dissatisfaction with his female body.

He alleges his father raped and abused him when he was a teenager, but died five years ago, before he could be charged.

Now, he looks in the mirror "through the eyes of that terrified 15-year-old girl and see this funny little man staring back at me".

He said: "I wish I could turn back the clock and just have the foresight of what the nightmare the next 15 years would be.

"I'm a woman I'm not meant to be a bloke. I'm trapped. It's a complete mess - where do you even start? I just regret the decision.

"There is this myth that when an individual 'changes gender' they go into hospital one gender and come out 'all done'. That isn't the case, there are years of surgeries and hormones for the rest of your life.

"The session where I realised this was so bad that I had a complete break down and panic attack because I realised it was a huge mistake.

"It should never have happened. It was a big wake up call.

"I was traumatised by what had happened in my life and it was misdiagnosed as being transgender.

"I was vulnerable, I just though that if I wasn't a girl my life would be different, I would be different, I would be accepted and that would be it.

"I thought that becoming a man would make me worthy and I would become a different person."

He added: "I'm not a man, I am an approximation of a man.

"I wish I could wake up as Debbie and realise that the last 15 years were just as bad a nightmare."

Lee primarily blames his father for what has happened to him.

But he says he believes the private psychiatrist who started off his transition should have "picked up on the fact I was abused".

"I should have had help somewhere along the line," he said.

"Nobody ever raised the idea that I could feel like this due to trauma. Not once - until it was all done.

"I have spent my life despising my own body.

"It's so inhumane to feel that was about your own body. But the fact is I now know I rejected my body because of the way my father treated me." (continues)
//www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/im-still-debbie-man-reveals-13532989
thread:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3414138-Im-not-meant-to-be-a-bloke-Woman-who-changed-gender-to-become-man-called-Lee-says-sex-swap-was-a-huge-mistake

Like Leanne, Debbie describes being motivated to share her story to try to help others. I hope people with influence in both medical and transgender communities listen to them & reflect.

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papayasareyum · 01/01/2019 12:45

it's affirmation culture, isn't it? Nobody is allowed to question anything. It's a pat on the head and off for hormones and surgery. It's affirmation or nothing. Many many people will fall through the cracks. Nobody found out about her complex PTSD because they didn't want to know, they were there to affirm only.

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Italiangreyhound · 01/01/2019 13:48

Where is the big nationally supported charity for people like Debbie? And all the others who have been operated on and regret their transition?

If Mermaids get support so should a charity supporting detranitioners.

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Sowhatifisaycunt · 01/01/2019 17:17

Debbie’s story is just heartbreaking.

OP posts:
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FWRLurker · 01/01/2019 17:31

Detransitioners, desisters, and regretters are constantly informed they don’t matter, that they are pawns of the far right, that they should take responsibility for their choices (though trans people have no such obligation), that they are wrong and are actually trans so should try HRT / surgery again, or that they are crazy or stupid, and anyway, they are vanishingly rare so who cares.

There is no one standing up for these people except for feminists. They are either doubted or ignored by the medical community and transgender community.

I think they are being under counted as well. No one knows my husband desisted - he simply stopped going in for treatment. His provider likely assumes he went elsewhere for his hormones. His primary care doc knows, but he’s not in a position to really influence anything. I suppose he might be more skeptical than your average primary care doc if he has a trans patient in the future.

Maybe nothing will change until enough people detrans / desist and docs see the problem for themselves... which means hundreds of unneeded surgeries and sterilizations are the cost we’ll pay...

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R0wantrees · 01/01/2019 17:39

There is no one standing up for these people except for feminists. They are either doubted or ignored by the medical community and transgender community.

James Caspian's appeal against being prevented from researching this is ongoing:
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3129659-Update-from-James-Caspian-on-his-case-against-Bath-Spa-University-to-be-allowed-to-research-detransitioners?pg=4

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welshgendercrit · 01/01/2019 17:40

"It has not brought me what I dreamed. You can only be a copy. There are very few men and women that would be willing to spend their lives committed to a transsexual person."

If only those words could be shown to everyone exploring the possibility of medical transition before they start on the path. Leanne actually passes very well, if the photos are anything to go by, yet has not found happiness or contentment. Very sad and a story likely to be repeated many, many times in the future.

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jessstan2 · 01/01/2019 18:17

Quite heartbreaking. Not surprising though.

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LeanneMills1961 · 03/01/2019 23:02

Thankyou for this thread following my feature in the Nottingham Post
and your warm words, you can't know how reassuring I find them.

Each time I succeed in my efforts, I become more and more inspired
to push further and further. It's incredibly emotional but at the
same time I feel I'm stronger as a result. I'm determined to make a difference to the madness, however small.

FWRLurker's comment is absolutely spot-on. In 2016 I attempted to 'come out' then and tell my sob-story; but being isolated I knew no-one who might help. So I wrote to Stephen Whittle (among others) hoping for moral support and guidance. Since he had also participated in the same ground-breaking TV documentary I had been in way back in 1980, I felt sure he would be understanding and pleased to help.

Alas he never replied, despite my emails becoming more and more anxious. For all that, neither did the others, save for a warning- "Watch what you say, now, Leanne, there are many out there who would seize on any negative content and put back all the rights we have fought so hard to get, and you will be responsible..."

Can you imagine what I felt at that moment? If that's the way the trans community treats its own and who are in deep crisis, then how could THEY rightfully expect acceptance from society? I won't belabour you with the details but I went into meltdown.

It was only finding Debbie Hayton on Woman's Place UK that gave me hope. In her I knew I had found the side I really belonged to. Therefore any success in what I am doing now is completely down to her friendship and support.

All being well may hear from local radio very soon.

Love to everyone
Leanne x

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Italiangreyhound · 04/01/2019 00:31

LeanneMills1961 thank you for your message.

It must have felt so hard not getting the support you wanted and needed.

I am very pleased you have found support.

A young member of my family is identifying as trans and it is so very hard to be supportive of them but also wanting to encourage them to slow down, that they are so young to want to identify in this way.

I want to ask a personal question but I am not sure how much it is fair to ask a personal question. So can I ask a general one? In terms of the trans 'communities' can people find love and acceptance with other trans people? It's heartbreaking to hear you have not found the love you are looking for. I just wondered why it is so hard to find acceptance even in the trans 'communities' that exist now. I say trans 'communities' because it is often said there is not one trans community.

All best wishes.

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Sowhatifisaycunt · 04/01/2019 01:57

Thank you for adding your voice of experience @LeanneMills1961. You’re exceptionally brave and I wish you every happiness 💐

OP posts:
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Vegilante · 04/01/2019 02:49

LeanneMills1961 thank you for telling your story & coming here to share more.

It's awful what you've been through. And then Whittle added insult to your many injuries. What he said to you is cruel, wrong & unconscionable.

Glad to hear you've found support. Women on the FWR threads have sharp minds & sometimes even sharper tongues. This makes some perceive us as cold-hearted. But I think most would agree that we have only warm wishes for you & everyone else already & potentially damaged by trans ideology.

Happy new year & best wishes to you.

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FWRLurker · 04/01/2019 05:06

Leanne I’m so glad my post resonated with you.

Thank you so much for making your voice heard. It can’t have been easy. I’m sure your example will help others like you come out and you will find more people like you.

Best wishes to you and keep living and fighting.

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AngryAttackKittens · 04/01/2019 05:16

There's another reason not to like Steven Whittle. TRAs seem to treat everyone like Whittle treated Leanne, as if they were just tools that exist to help the TRA achieve their goals. I'm not sure most of them are even capable of recognizing their fellow humans as actual people with feelings and needs of our own.

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R0wantrees · 04/01/2019 08:15

It's awful what you've been through. And then Whittle added insult to your many injuries. What he said to you is cruel, wrong & unconscionable.

My understanding from what LeanneMills1961 posted was that Stephen Whittle did not ever reply to her.

the comment/warning, "Watch what you say, now, Leanne, there are many out there who would seize on any negative content and put back all the rights we have fought so hard to get, and you will be responsible..." comes from someone else. Not sure if this is a direct quote or summary.

The abandonment of transgender people by the trans community as described by Leanne is appalling. Especially those, like her, who shared such personal stories to raise awareness. Where was the duty of care?
I've seen on social media how those trans people who step outside and challenge the orthadoxy of trans ideology are treated. Its viscous.

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Katvonbatshit · 04/01/2019 09:31

I read a women saying she'd been called a t*rf because she'd detransitioned. She was very upset.
Seems cruel

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AngryAttackKittens · 04/01/2019 09:34

Walking on eggshells. The people within the cult are made to do it just as much as the rest of us, and are not treated kindly if they break the rules.

I guess Leanne is now whatever the equivalent of a "suppressive person" is in Scientology, and that would be Whittle's excuse for ignoring a person who was reaching out for help.

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JellySlice · 04/01/2019 09:34

Isn't it ironic that gender critical women treat trans people with more compassion than than other trans people do?

It makes me wonder whether there truly is such a thing as a trans community.

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R0wantrees · 04/01/2019 09:54

It makes me wonder whether there truly is such a thing as a trans community.

Jess Bradley's contribution to the book, 'To My Trans Sisters'
edited by Charlie Craggs (publ Oct 2017)

"The first time I changed the world was when I told my mates to call me she rather than he. I literally constructed a new world where its possible to understand myself as a genderqueer woman, despite being asigned male at birth simply by changing the language to describe myself. This is why language and pronouns are so important. Its about creating a world in which trans people are allowed to exist"

"And I can honestly say that the work that trans people do for each other means that, for me at least, the trans community is a beautiful place to be. Despite our differences, we have each others' backs"

the book is described:
"Dedicated to trans women everywhere, this inspirational collection of letters written by successful trans women shares the lessons they learnt on their journeys to womanhood, celebrating their achievements and empowering the next generation to become who they truly are.

Written by politicians, scientists, models, athletes, authors, actors, and activists from around the world, these letters capture the diversity of the trans experience and offer advice from make-up and dating through to fighting dysphoria and transphobia.

By turns honest and heartfelt, funny and furious or beautiful and brave, these letters send a clear message of hope to their sisters: each of these women have gone through the struggles of transition and emerged the other side as accomplished, confident women; and if we made it sister, so can you!"

source:
//books.google.co.uk/books?id=gNspDwAAQBAJ

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hypnotizzz · 04/01/2019 10:00

Thanks for sharing Leanne.

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