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Who is listening to the Today show: debate over Trans rights and the parliamentary bill

(120 Posts)
Bovneydazzlers Wed 18-Oct-17 08:49:03

Pleasantly surprised so far that the BBC are giving balanced picture and giving platform to Janice Turner as well as Stonewall.

I think more could be said that hormone blockers have side effects and likely to lead down path to being sterile etc though.

BMacklin Wed 18-Oct-17 08:52:54

My husband just called to say about this, He seemed to think they were talking to people who regretted it. I've not got time atm but will pick up on this later.

hipsterfun Wed 18-Oct-17 08:56:07

Good balanced coverage.

Terrylene Wed 18-Oct-17 08:59:02

They are trying very hard to be even handed for the first time (after all those propaganda pieces thy used to broadcast). They have fallen down the 'assigned' hole but the lack of debate is being alllowed to be mentioned.

Terrylene Wed 18-Oct-17 09:00:07

Janice was good.

motmot Wed 18-Oct-17 09:01:51

Quite amazed (and pleased) the concepts of discussion and debate are being mentioned. Still a massive conflation of gender and sex though, or did I miss someone pointing this out?

hipsterfun Wed 18-Oct-17 09:02:46

It’s a shame that at the end of the piece they discussed ‘post-gender’ (which would of course be a good thing) where what was meant was ‘post-sex’ (which is not possible).

Terrylene Wed 18-Oct-17 09:02:56

I think they were too willing to believe tha puberty blockers just turn puberty on and off with no consequences which is unlikely as drugs never work that way and it has. Not been studied properly yet.

hipsterfun Wed 18-Oct-17 09:03:26

Cross posted there!

Bovneydazzlers Wed 18-Oct-17 09:03:42

I wish there was a bit more on the violent suppression of debate too (I did miss the v end though as had to go to work!)

cinnamonwoman Wed 18-Oct-17 09:05:58

Who else was shouting SEX NOT GENDER at the radio towards the end?
angry
'Imagine a world without gender, do we really want that?' YES PLEASE!
Imagine being allowed to be who we are without rigid stereotypes telling us we're doing it wrong?
Sign me up please, but I'm not relegating my biological female reality to achieve that new world.

SonicBoomBoom Wed 18-Oct-17 09:06:08

I heard most of it and was pleasantly surprised.

I mean, it wasn't great, but much more balanced than 90% of pieces are allowed to be these days.

KeepOnKeepingOn1 Wed 18-Oct-17 09:08:07

Before the 1950s ‘gender’ was only used in relation to grammar. It wasn’t applied to human behaviour until 1955.

hipsterfun Wed 18-Oct-17 09:08:44

Part of the problem with the trans discussion is that so many people have a poor understanding of the relevant science, which is why it’s possible to make ludicrous claims be believed.

hipsterfun Wed 18-Oct-17 09:09:57

and be believed.

Stopmakingsense Wed 18-Oct-17 09:10:07

It was great to hear a balanced argument, although there was confusion - it was necessarily brief. They had quite a long interview with a 29 year old woman who had injected testosterone and then come to regret it. Her quote that we may look back at this as one of the medical scandals of the 21st century was even in the trail for the programme.
Am not on Twitter but would love to see the highlights if is following it.

hipsterfun Wed 18-Oct-17 09:16:38

For example, that a man can have a vagina. The fact is that while it’s possible to construct an internal tube of tissue, it’s not a vagina and it doesn’t function like a vagina. You will of course believe this bullshit if you have no understanding of anatomy and physiology.

TheHumanRace Wed 18-Oct-17 09:17:04

Yeah I was shouting Sex NOT Gender!!

But really pleased they discussed detransitioning and had a woman on who had done this and said if offered when younger shed have had surgery and regretted it. Thought they aired some of the concerns about kids quite well.

JH did keep saying
'Then they can take the drugs which change the sex' though, and I was shouting 'you can't change sex!!'

I thought Janice and man at the end made the pointbwell that there needs to be a debate. I feel this can't be shut down for much longer the debate is being brought on.

The non binary child who liked pirates and barbies even had my 13year old going ' so bloody What??' So I think most radio4 listeners would have thought that was a load of shit.

Really glad this is being discussed at last.

hipsterfun Wed 18-Oct-17 09:19:51

It would’ve been more persuasive if they’d found an interviewee with surgical regrets.

cinnamonwoman Wed 18-Oct-17 09:21:17

The med student came across very well. Sad that she couldn't use her real name for fear of backlash. Says a lot really doesn't it? I'm glad she said it could be considered the next medical blunder of the 21st century, I couldn't agree more.

Leo's mum came across as totally conservative and regressive talking about pink bedrooms and pirate parties. What a fool.

But she thinks she's the progressive onehmm

TheHumanRace Wed 18-Oct-17 09:25:57

YES the medical blunder of the 21st century comment from a detransitioner was very powerful. Wouldhave caused a lot of people to think fuck l can see that!!

Terrylene Wed 18-Oct-17 09:27:01

Wasn't Leo's mum the one they gave uncritical air space too just before the J verdict?

Datun Wed 18-Oct-17 09:29:23

They got so much wrong, but least they have lifted the lid on the possibilities.

They talked about detransition, tick. The hormones, tick. Women’s spaces, tick. But, most important of all, they talked about censorship.

This is the crucial part.

Because as soon as debate is allowed, people will begin to understand.

I don’t have much confidence in televised/radio debates. Because they are always too limited by time and unfortunately, not everyone has the requisite eloquence to explain all this, whilst shoving a crash course in feminism into the narrative.

Because without that background, the issue of the importance of biological sex is sometimes missed.

You only have to look at the Weinstein comments to realise quite how many people are simply not aware of the endemic inequality in society. Or why.

The most important thing is to allow people to talk. Get the debate going.

And that programme has least acknowledged it. Which it would not have done even a few months ago.

In a way mumsnet is a microcosm of how it could play out.

A few years ago, every trans thread was met with howls of transphobia and a profound lack of understanding of both the agenda of TRAs and the implications. Understandably.

But because debate was allowed to flourish, gradually, people have just become more informed. But it takes time.

Interestingly, it’s the issue of children, which has forced this debate into the public arena.

Thankfully. That bloody woman talking about barbies and pirates. I’m hoping that enough sensible women were listening to that, who look at their young son happily playing with dolls and thinking wtf, that’s completely normal, you fool.

FurryGiraffe Wed 18-Oct-17 09:29:45

They presented a half hour segment framed as whether we’re headed towards a ‘post gend r world’ without once asking what gender is. Astonishing. I’m with PP- sign me up to a post gender world, but as a woman the idea we live in one is laughable. Witness- the Harvey Weinstein affair...

Good to hear Janice Turner and the medical student though. It was a much more balanced piece than most.

hipsterfun Wed 18-Oct-17 09:31:28

The more I think about this, the more I think I’d have been ‘trans’ if I was growing up now.

Which is nonsense because I’m female and love being female; it’s just that I’m not a lady and I don’t like doing ladies’ things grin

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