I'm am sitting in a coffee shop

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Discreetly observing a group of one man and three women. The man is totally holding court with three (younger, natch) women gazing at him. Occasionally one interjects with a comment and Man responds. At one point one woman started talking animatedly and Man started a conversation with the woman closest to him. It's really interesting and infuriating at the same time.

[VulcanWoman]

You could flip it though, 3 men drooling over a women. Are they of similar age?

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

The women are all about 10 years younger than the man. They aren't drooling over him, that's not my point. It's the way he is talking constantly with this total expectation of being listened to and when one of the other women started talking he had to make himself the centre of a different conversation. Such self belief is breathtaking.

[KanyesVest]

Unfortunately for some of them, it never changes. I was recently at a workshop, 10 women, 2 men. one man dominated every aspect of the conversation and had to "chip in" on every comment or observation by anyone else. And this in spite of a very good facilitator (the other man) who kept trying to shut him down. It was exhausting.

[VulcanWoman]

Yeah, but why are you focusing on the man being put on some pedestal. You could have an outgoing confident woman taking control/over the conversation with 3 young lads that work under her maybe.

[originalmavis]

Could not be a tutorial?

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

1- I don't think it's a tutorial, they are chatting
2- because this is male socialisation at work before my very eyes and it's interesting

[MilkTwoSugarsThanks]

Maybe the man is genuinely interesting

[KanyesVest]

Milk, I think it's more about him holding court and his lack of interest (indicated by starting another conversation) when someone else has the floor. It's depressingly common.

[Mide7]

I think it's interesting that your first thought is male socialisation and not one of the hundred other reasons a man could be holding court with 3 women.

[variousthings]

Maybe it's a panel of three women interviewing him for a job.

[Alibabsandthe40Musketeers]

Obsidian I really think you're reading too much into this. There is a social situation I am often in (being deliberately vague here!!) where young men hang on my every word, and there is no formal structure which would require them to.

Sometimes someone really is that fascinating

[Alibabsandthe40Musketeers]

The thing about him starting the side conversation only tells you one thing, that he's an impolite dick. But I see plenty of alpha-type women doing the same thing as soon as they don't hold the spotlight.

[thatstoast]

Maybe it's a panel of three women interviewing him for a job.

So he was talking over someone interviewing him? That's much better.

[vestandknickers]

How do you know this is because of gender rather than age or personality?

Are you seeing what you want to see to prove a point?

[PalmerViolet]

The comments on this thread are very telling.

And that's about it really.

I get where you're coming from Obsidian.

[AyeAmarok]

Well I for one don't think you're reading too much into it, ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight.

I'd love to be there watching them, I find people watching fascinating and I can imagine exactly what sort of situation/dynamics you're describing!

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

I think until you look for it you can't see it as it's just the way things are

I often run counselling groups men always try to dominate the group, if one quiet when they do speak some women (more so with older women) will be far more attentive to them than when other women speak (not necessarily in a flirtatious way but it does happen) some men will obviously sulk when not being allowed to lead the group, will battle with mentor other group facilitator to lead (resentment often quite obvious) it's very interesting the dynamics that play out and I think a reflection on how society so often is

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

Meant to write ...

Will battle with me or other group facilitator

[Mide7]

"I think until you look for it you can't see it as it's just the way things are"

I agree ED but I think it works both ways. As you become more aware of these things, you tend to look for them to explain things without knowing the full story.

[LilacSpunkMonkey]

I know what you mean, OP.

It's like when I'm on the bus and there will be a college student or sixth former (male) talking at a girl a couple of years younger. I've seen this lots of times. The male will be very loud and incredibly patronising and basically slam anything the girl says.

Such twattish behaviour.

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Yes, I am looking at things through my own lens. I do think my interpretation was spot on though.
Definitely not a job interview!

[Grimarse]

I don't doubt the OP's observations, but how do we account for men who are too shy to speak to women, or who become tongue-tied in their presence? As a younger man, I was one of them, and it's a common phenomenon.

Does the patriarchy just neglect to sprinkle its fairy dust on some men?

[EnthusiasmDisturbed]

I think body language and the very subtle facial expressions that we do not necessarily register tell us often the dynamics that are playing out

Of course some women will dominate groups and be more demanding of attention but we usually recognise that when it's a man we don't so much

[ObsidianBlackbirdMcNight]

Grim do you really believe that feminism's position is that the effects of socialisation are applied uniformly to every member of the male sex?