Teenager out of control and violent (Aspergers)

[paulfoel]

Posted about him many times I'm sure....

15 now, big lad. Got a diagnosis of Aspergers.

Not sure if its related to Aspergers or just general bad teenager behaviour. Like most he doesn't listen, makes a mess, is moody and stroppy. Normal I guess. One thing is he generally believes hes so hard done by and thinks we pick on him. In all honestly, he gets away with murder.

We try not to get into arguments with him. We warn him then we remove PC priveleges. But he wont take and gets VERY aggressive. He just cannot control himself. In the past, hes been violent towards me.

Today, after some typical lazy behaviour that he'd been warned for, he got a 1 day ban. Then he got in my wifes face in a very threatening way. Thing is he would have been back on there by tommorow but hes made it 1000x times worse now.

Hes a big lad. What do I do here? Yes understand teenagers can be a nightmare but surely being aggressive towards your mother is just a bit too far.

Ultimately, I can see me calling the Police one day and getting him arrested.

How to deal?

[BarbarianMum]

If he's violent its either the police or social services. I'd try the police first - it may shock him by making it clear that violence is never an option. If his asd means he truly cannot manage his temper (as opposed to choosing not to - is he violent w people outside the home?) then he'll need specific intervention which is where social services come in.

Separately, is punishing him by taking away his pc privileges the best way to manage his behaviour? How about he earns screen time each day by doing x, y & z (up wash and dressed, go to school, household chore fi)? It would be better to move away from punishments as he gets older and more into giving him choices and let natural consequences take their place.

[paulfoel]

Hi barbarian - Calling the police is not something I really want to do for a few reasons:-

1. I think they will be completely clueless.
   
2. I don't think it will have the desired affect on him - he won't think of it as a shock he will just think we've done it to spite him.
   
3. Its the start of a slippery slope.
   
   In school hes a model child apparently. We can never believe it. BUT he did have an issue where another kid brought a knife to school after an argument with him. I got the feeling at the time that he was not totally blameless in it all.
   
   Know what you mean. Very little is asked of him at the moment to be honest and he has unlimited screen time.
   
   We've tried the consequence thing.
   
   
4. We let him carry on leaving his clothes on the floor. He storms downstairs and demands to know why his clothes are not washed. O course, cant do this for school clothes he wouldnt go.
   
5. We ignored the state of his bedroom. Trouble is then it just spreads to communal areas and everyone else has to deal with his filth.
   
6. We gave him a written contract of what hes expected to do and behave. Completely ignores it.
   
7. He wants to go on school trip to USA. Expensive. Told him its a lot of money and he needs to behave. That lasted probably 12 hours.

[Kleinzeit]

Oooh, that school trip is a huge carrot! Don't let it go to waste If he has an ASC then telling him to behave well wont mean much. Instead think of those small specific tasks you want him to do, the ones he can do without too much bother but is too lazy. Be very concrete. Then tell him that to go on the holiday he needs to do those tasks. Run a token scheme so he can earn the trip. "To go on the trip you need to put your clothes in the basket every night / put the laundry on every week / put everything that's on your bedroom floor back inthe cupboards and shelves and all the rubbish in the bin once a week" and so on. Figure out it out so he needs to do the tasks 80 per cent of the time to earn enough tokens to go - and do make sure he can succeed, don't make it too challenging, it's better to make it not challenging enough. A tip - he either earns a holiday token or not, and once a token is earned it is earned forever and you can't take them away. If he does something dreadful then think of a different punshment.

Since he has an ASC it's worth pointing out that although he is earning the right to go on the trip from you by doing the tasks, he still has to follow the rules in school or they wont let him go.

And if he is a model child in school then at home he is probably shattered and permanently in the "rumbling" stage of the autistic rage cycle. So there's no point going head to head with him and punishing him for laziness, it will just tip over into rage and aggression.

[Smile73]

Hi. I have an 11 year old with Aspergers who is quite aggressive and a 17 year old who seems to have ADHD with some ASD traits. Neither has ever been able to manage incentives or understand consequences. Both are very which can be so confusing. (I have a 15 year old who is neurotypical and the difference is amazing - she comes to me with her own incentives and consequences). My son (17) needs very immediate rewards or he will not do a thing. He needs to see the benefit to him and feel the buzz of instant achievement. My 11 year old responds to physical games like play wrestling - when she starts with the insults we start with the play fights. It really works for her and she gets enormous relief from a fun way to get the aggression out. If she feels happy and knows the boundaries she fits into routines brilliantly. If she has been agressive and we haven't managed it well she feels the lack of boundaries and the routines go and the anxiety grows and melt downs happen. For her it is the soothing nature of a good routine and safe boundaries that improve the behaviour.

[Smile73]

(P.S. - I had some therapy to be able to deal with the violence. I was frightened of my daughter as she battered me daily. I tried leaving the room and all the usual stuff but she needed me to be there because her anxiety was off the scale during these attacks. I had to learn to stand my ground and catch the blows as they came in - turning them into hugs. It is against every instinct but it has done amazing things for her)

[Kleinzeit]

Smile Amazing how different our kids can be with the same diagnosis

she needed me to be there because her anxiety was off the scale during these attacks. I had to learn to stand my ground and catch the blows as they came in - turning them into hugs. It is against every instinct but it has done amazing things for her

I'm impressed by your strength, emotional and physical. My reactions aren't quick enough so I could never have used play fighting safely, though otherwise it might have been a good thing to try.

[paulfoel]

Thanks all. Yes we'd love him to go on the trip and we thought "great carrot".

Problem is over the years we've found he just does not understand consequences AT ALL.

Hes kicked and broken his beloved PC a number of times. Then it means time to fix it which annoys him.

When hes told off and decides hes right then nothing else matters to him. He has got to be right and will go to whatever level it takes regardless.

Probably about 50 times hes been told his PC time for day is ending because of something hes not done. Like PC off homework needs to be done. He'll then kick off, answer back and get aggressive which ends up with it being extended to a week ban. I remember once his mum was going out in 10 mins, asked him to clear up mess he'd made, for some reason he decided to kick off, ended up with a weeks ban.

Im thinking just shut up, agree with your mother, she'll be out of the door in 10 mins. Talk about shooting yourself in the foot!

A school trip in 12 months time just won't register with him at all.

Another factor in his thinking seems to be that he considers it a right to have all this. If his washing is not done he kicks off (even though half the time its still on his bedroom floor), if the internet stops working he kicks off and someone better sort it soon. Hes a kid and doesn't have to do things because us as parents have to go to work and buy him things. Really thats his attitude and hes said most of this.

Of course, any attempt by us to discipline him ends up with him thinking we're the worse parents in the world and we're doing it to pick on him and its so unfair.

[paulfoel]

Hes off again. Twice in two weeks.

Last night we found Coke all over the wall in the room where his PC is. We've got past experience with this sort of thing - hes lost his temper while playing computer games and broken things. Also, hes got a habit of something breaking (even if its an accident) and then just leaving it and not bothering to tell anyone.

Anyway, so we're 99.99% sure hes done this. So wife has a calm word with him and asked him whats going on here. In about 3 seconds literally hes gone from 0 to 100. Hes up in his mothers face (2nd time in a week now), being really aggressive and swears blind that no-one ever believes him and hes got no idea how the Coke got up the wall.

The things worrying us right now are:-

1. His aggression. He seems to think if he disagrees with someone he can get up in their face and escalate things. Let alone the fact that this is his mother we're talking about here.
   
   
2. He seems to think that hes not wrong. I've literally heard "I didn't do it and you always accuse me of lying" about 50 times. EVERY SINGLE TIME so far hes been found out. One time he is going to be telling the truth I know but still his average isn't good.
   
   What do we do?
   
   We've removed his PC privileges AGAIN. Mainly due to the unacceptable aggressive behaviour. In all honesty, if he'd admitted he'd done it straight away he would have been give a task to clean the wall, and a warning about his behaviour.
   
   I honestly don't know how hes going to cope in the real world as an adult.

[MeetJoeTurquoise]

Speak to school to see what he's like there and try to identify any triggers. When my son is like this I can guarantee the trigger lies at school.
See if the SENCO can do a referral to CAMHS because he's at a stage at school where they do take more notice.

[Kleinzeit]

He may not cope in the real world as an adult. A lot of people with Asperger's don't, and he may always need adjustments and support. Right now your main aim is for all you to have a viable and peaceful way of life.

I can't tell how much of the problem is his disability alone and how much is that you have some unrealistic expectations and so you are making demands that he can't cope with. Like expecting a calm admission when he has done something wrong. For many youngster with ASCs, needing to be "always right" goes with the territory and expecting anything else would cause him to blow up.

If he has an ASC then he probably wont see the need to tell you things. It happened, so in his mind you already know it happened. And if you or your wife know that he has done something then you don't have to ask if he did or not. You can move on to "oh dear the thingie is broken / there is writing on the wall what shall we do about it?" Who broke the thingie or wrote on the wall is not an interesting question.

A punishment-based approach is very unlikely to work and tends to make maters worse. Have you and your wife tried the approach in Ross Greene's Explosive Child ]] and "walking tour" with him? It is not specific to Asperger's but it can be very effective for aggressive young people who have the condition.

[Kleinzeit]

Sorry - Explosive Child book

[paulfoel]

@MJT - Hes been seeing CAMHS for years and takes medication too. Diagnosis only came through a few months ago.

Thing is hes fine in school. Small mercies I guess. Speak to teachers and its like speaking about a different child. I;ve heard this sort of masking is common though.

[paulfoel]

@Kleinziet thanks. Yes have that book - I guess I need to look at again.

See what you mean about not telling us - makes sense. As does the not owning up to things.

I'm not 100% sure about this though. The CAMHS people have said the same - a lot of his behaviour can be attributed to being ASD but some of it is just bad behaviour from him.

As I said above, its deciding what is what.

But I like the idea of not getting him to admit it. Just deal with it. We'll try that I think.

[Kleinzeit]

I'm not 100% sure about this though. The CAMHS people have said the same - a lot of his behaviour can be attributed to being ASD but some of it is just bad behaviour from him.

My own experience was that if I didn't already know 100% for sure that it was just bad behaviour, then treating it as ASD was always more effective. Calmer in the short term, and easier to change things in the long run as well.

[paulfoel]

@kleinzeit makes sense I guess. I've never had a teenager before so I don't know whats normal bad behaviour.

How on earth do I tell 100%

[Kleinzeit]

I've never had a teenager before so I don't know whats normal bad behaviour.

Well, things I did when I was that age, or DBro / DSis / DH / pals / nieces / nephews... OK it's never 100 per cent but you know what I mean!

[paulfoel]

Over 30 years since I was a teenager! I never did anything like he does but a lot of people my age would say that.

I know friends/family who experience similar (but not quite as bad) as we get. Some of his behaviour is very very similar to other kids I've heard about so thats what makes me think.

[poobumwee]

I'll pm you later.

[paulfoel]

escalated a bit again earlier. Son got home and wife told he was still banned. One thing led to another and he shoved her flying over a chair. Shes got bruises on her back, banged her head, suspected broken wrist. I'm picking her up from hospital later (had to bring 5 year old home).

I wasn't there which was probably lucky because I'd have intervened.

Of course, hes sorry now. Wife is upset but wants to get something sorted for him.In a way, I hope this gives him a bit of a shock and it hits home to him how bad things are.

[OneMoreForExtra]

OP, have you looked into Non Violent Resistance? Its a method of managing child to parent violence. You can get training courses on it.

It sounds like an awful situation and I'd also suggest you look into some relationship-based family therapy. The consequences thing isn't working so it sounds like it's time to stop it. He's expressing anger and frustration with the coke-throwing and stuff smashing, and can't understand the impact of his actions. It might be hard but could you try meeting him where he is? Ie: "you must have been upset when the game didn't go your way" rather than "you threw the coke, you're banned " . Worth a try?

[VodkaKnockers]

Totally sympathise with you.

I'm in a similar situation and the aggression is just getting worse.

He was on antidepressants but has now refused to take them and there is nothing we can do. CAMHS are on the verge of discharging him as there is nothing more they can do as he won't co-operate or participate in therapy.

School is also a nightmare. It's a struggle just to get him up and ready to school and then the ongoing battle to get him to stay there.

Lost count of the number of times something has been thrown at me.

The worst is the escalation in his anger. He pulled a knife on my partner yesterday because he was told to keep the noise down!

Not sure how much longer I can cope with this

[paulfoel]

@OneMoreForExtra How does that work the Non violence resistance?

Looking into counselling at the moment.

Yes we have tried all sorts of approaches to be honest.

[paulfoel]

@VodkaKnockers Wow thats bad. I feel for you....

[paulfoel]

@Vodkaknockers At any time have you tried or been tempted to call the police? I dont want to but I can see it happening.

[Isadora2007]

Have you looked into PDA or ODD as it used to be called? It sounds like he possibly has this as a comorbid condition alongside his ADC...
it sounds like he cannot manage consequences- so unfortunately you as the NT adults will need to be changing your approach. Whilst violence is never acceptable you even said yourself that you wife cane home and reminded him about losing his privileges- creating the meltdown. You need to look at his condition and what he can reasonably be expected to do and what he cannot do due to a condition. If he has PDA then requests from you May feel like demands to him and he literally cannot do them at that point. You need to read up on your communication with him and change things drastically to deescalate your home life. Also worth considering is he actually being “lazy” or is it so much effort to fit in the outside world at school that he actually needs a safe space to just “be” at home. It’s about making reasonable adjustments and I wonder if your expectations need to be adjusted and your behaviour changed first in order for you guys to get the desired changes in your sons behaviour and actions.