Threads being deleted all the time

[Gwenhwyfar]

It seems to be at least 1 in 5 threads that get deleted because some over-sensitive person doesn't agree with something in it.
What's the logic MN?
Surely this is a place for people to discuss things, you either get involved in the conversation if you disagree or ignore the thread if it's annoying you too much. Why do interesting threads have to be deleted because people don't agree with some of the things said on them? The judgemental thread today is one example.
I understand deleting threads where the OP's story isn't true or there's a danger to someone being identified, but not just because someone's complained.

[runwalkrun]

There is not even a this thread has been deleted message.
Is this a thing now? Threads disappearing without even an explanation?

[runwalkrun]

Gwen, some people have an agenda.
I have seen instances where a poster will change names and come back on the thread and purposely post inflammatory comnets so that people will report the thread.
The thread gets shut down.
It's a game to them.

[Gwenhwyfar]

But why don't MNHQ use their discretion. They seem to just close down anything that someone complains about.
They do give explanations, but these are subjective. I don't agree that the judging thread was nasty or whatever they called it.

[LornaMumsnet]

Thanks for flagging this up. We're more than happy to clarify deletions and just wanted to let you know that we removed the thread you mention above because, whilst we did try and give it the benefit of the doubt, we were receiving so many complaints about it being 'not in the spirit' that in the end, it was causing too much upset for us to leave it running.

We were also deleting quite a few posts, which meant the thread was looking all swiss-cheesy, never something we want. We do take time to consider deletions but ultimately, everything is on a case-by-case basis and the reasons do vary quite a lot.

If you ever want clarification on why we've removed a thread, please don't hesitate to reach out.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

I was on that thread and I'm glad it's gone. I left about 3/4 the way through and apparently it got much worse afterwards. How can that happen if it was supposedly a 'lighthearted' thread? It bloody wasn't and you (general) know it. If it were all that you say it wouldn't have been deleted, would it?

I personally think MNHQ left it up for far too long and - because they don't post on these threads - give the benefit of the doubt too much. That and the click-factor perhaps?

Why should posters not post their disgust when other posters decide to start a tirade of personal dislikes/insults just because they can? Go and start your own platform if you want control of who can post and who can't - but don't pretend that your spite was anything other than that and if you can't tell the difference between "I don't like coconut" and "anybody who doesn't like coconut is then that's pitiful and absolutely an indictment of you.

There are some really spiteful and inadequate people out there, lashing out on threads. Don't even pretend that ADHD, SEN, breastfeeding or any of those emotive and highly inflammatory subjects are fodder for 'lighthearted-ness'. Because that would make you a TROLL.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"Why should posters not post their disgust when other posters decide to start a tirade of personal dislikes/insults just because they can? "

But that is the point. You're allowed to say that you don't like the thread or hide the thread if you don't want to engage at all. What's wrong is to take away our freedom to express ourselves. Nobody was being bullied or victimised on that thread.

I see things I don't agree with on MN all the time. I either ignore or join the argument. I don't ask for it to be deleted just because I don't agree with certain posts.

I'm not a troll. If I disagree with someone online it's because I want to have a discussion, that's all.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

It depends what you say and do. If you (not aimed at you personally) post to provoke on topics that are inflammatory with the intention of upsetting posters for whom the situation is actual real life then yes, you're a troll and you ought to be booted off MN. The premise is 'for parents, to make their lives easier'. How does heckling and goading achieve that exactly?

I could say I don't like the thread or hide it but why should I? This isn't anybody's personal playground and if you want that freedom, set up your own site. If it were permissible to post like a troll the threads wouldn't be deleted would they? I'd be very surprised if they're deleted on one poster's say-so and, when I've received an e-mail from MN about a deleted thread it's usually prefaced by "Sorry for the mass e-mail". Which means that there has been multiple reports.

From my experience, the vocal dissenters are up front with their views but it doesn't mean that there aren't other posters who agree but don't want to put themselves 'in the firing line', which it very much is.

I personally don't think it's ok to 'walk on by' when there are disgusting posts about paedophiles, disabled people, SEN children and any range of emotive subjects; some people clearly do. I know that some posters do enjoy these and get very much satisfaction from starting and contributing to them with the more upset caused the better in the name of 'entertainment'. If this weren't the case these threads wouldn't receive a single post and would drop off the page unacknowledged. I don't care what your personal trigger point is for requesting deletion or not. It's not for you or me or anybody else to decide what's deletion-worthy or not - individual posters make their own decisions whether to report and it's MN's call to act on the report(s) or not.

I'm quite happy to have a robust discussion and will disagree with posters on one thread and agree with them on another. I don't name-change or curry favour with any poster, I just have my own views. I disagree with you that there wasn't 'victimisation/bullying/trolling/goading on the 'judgemental' thread and the 'vindictiveness' one as well, it was horrendous. I don't know why you think posters' 'freedom to express' themselves trumps other posters rights not to be picked on/ridiculed/heckled, etc. but again, if you were correct in your assumption the threads wouldn't be deleted, would they? And they are being. Not by posters disagreeing with you but by the board hosts.

The 'freedom of speech' door swings both ways. I hide more threads than I read/post on and I don't report many threads at all but if I see somebody being a spiteful goady-fucker thread/post then I'll report it. You're free to not report if you please but you don't get to tell anybody else what to do.

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

... and, in the interests of not wanting to come over as any sort of 'thread monitor', don't believe for a second that I haven't had my own fair share of posts being deleted and 'Mumsnet calling' e-mails. I have 'off days' like everybody else and sometimes I post like a twat. If I realise that or someone tells me so then more often than not I'll apologise for my post. Not to avoid censure but because I won't have realised that I've unintentionally upset someone.

This board has changed lately and not for the better. There are too many trolls and goady-fuckers posting on it who do it to cause upset. I don't have meaningful experience of SEN, or mental health issues, or ex-partner problems affecting my children or problems of loneliness - and some of the replies on threads affect me in their vileness. Imagine how the OP of those threads must feel? How is that ever justifiable?

I'm not a believer in karma but quite fervently I've wished that a troll/goady fucker gets a taste of their own medicine so that they learn a bit of empathy and can find something better to do with their time than upset people.

[NorksAreMessy]

I just wish they would keep up at least the TITLE of threads that go poof that are on my watching list.
I drive myself bonkers looking for them. If I have commented, I can see that they have been deleted, if I have just watched them, they just vanish .

Please MNHQ, help me !

[PugonToast]

@Gwenhwyfar
They were making vile disablist comments.

Why should those of us who live with SN in our life hide the thread because you think comments like that are fine? If they had made racist comments would that be ok? Of course it wouldn't. Disablist comments are just as inappropriate.

I feel you are being somewhat disingenuous here. And we weren't being sensitive flowers by complaining about the comments. We were being decent human beings. I will never tolerate shitty, ignorant comments about SN. Why do you?

[PugonToast]

@NorksAreMessy
If you have posted on the thread and you look in the "threads I am on", the title will show with 0 messages. They disappear from anywhere else.

[NorksAreMessy]

Exactly pug “they disappear from anywhere else” that is the bit that drives me doooolally :)

[Panda81]

Could threads be locked rather than deleted?

I'm going to have to purposely comment or placemark as I'm noticing an increase of threads just missing from my watchlist. I wish deletion messages would appear on watchlist.

What happened to the thread where the French bulldog went a bit mad last night and was meant to be seeing a vet this morning?

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

Panda, that one was a troll. Very sad though as this thing does happen in RL. My brother's Doberman was PTS, pituitary glad problem, he was only 3. No rage but smacking his head into the wall, poor thing.

Saddo troll.

[Panda81]

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe thanks I've seen a TAAT now. I don't understand how they know it was a troll.

Obviously better in that case it was a troll as it means no dog is suffering. But I don't get how we know for sure or why people bother making stuff up in the first place.

[NaughtToThreeSadOnions]

Unless the disablist comments made onnthst thread are challenged people think their acceptable, a number of us challenged them, but we're told that in your words 'no one was being bullied or victimised' so hay they were Ok.

Would you expect generalised racist comments to be allowed to stay? Or islamaphobic comments about judging women who chose to wear scarves, or generalised comments about judging same sex marriage? Or genalised comments about women drivers or judging that women are of less value in the work place you'd allow them to stay because no one was specifically being bullied or victimised they were just general judgements right, of course you wouldn't, I know I wouldn't, they shouldn't be allowed to stay.

So why should those of us either living with a disability ourselves or with children with a disability be made to feel shitty and judged?

If more people said whoa out of order, rather than go oh it's acceptable because it wasn't directed at some one specifically maybe people would judge disability, especially the unseen disabilities less!

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

I think they (MNHQ) look at IP addresses and whatever. I'm not very techie so I don't really know what they do. I've read before on deletion notes that they 'can't guarantee' and I reckon that in those cases they wait for the thread to go 'beyond the pale' and then pull it.

The trolls have a field day because they want an audience and so many posters here are complete drama lllamas... match-made-in-heaven, meet perfect-storm...

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

That was to Panda

[Gwenhwyfar]

"other posters rights not to be picked on/ridiculed/"

Nobody was being picked on in the judgemental thread.

"The 'freedom of speech' door swings both ways. "

Well it should do in the sense that you if you don't like something you can say so in a post. Reporting and getting the whole thread deleted is not freedom of expression is it, it's the opposite.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"Would you expect generalised racist comments to be allowed to stay? Or islamaphobic comments about judging women who chose to wear scarves, or generalised comments about judging same sex marriage? Or genalised comments about women drivers or judging that women are of less value in the work place you'd allow them to stay because no one was specifically being bullied or victimised they were just general judgements right, of course you wouldn't, I know I wouldn't, they shouldn't be allowed to stay. "

Racism is illegal. I think a thread disapproving of women wearing headscarves is perfectly fine - it's not my position but it's one that someone is allowed to have without being called an islamophobe. Similarly, if someone doesn't agree with same sex marriage, that's an opinion they're allowed to have as long as they're not actually discriminating against someone.

I don't remember the disablist comments on the judgemental thread. I remember someone getting upset at people judging the use of reins on children, but that comment was aimed at the use of reins rather than disabled children or children with SN. I actually found the response very interesting.

If you want more awareness of SN, closing down threads is not the way to go.

[NaughtToThreeSadOnions]

Errr you have a really weird idea of disablitism! When people were pointing out that the things they were saying were unacceptable because of disability. All people did was go I don't care I will always judge it how dare you question my free speech.
In fact just like your doing here.

It wasn't people just getting upset, it was horiable and disablist.

Persecuting people with disability is also illegal

[LyingWitchInTheWardrobe2726]

As you know, Gwenhwyfar, I DID say say so on the post. Many times, explaining why and you hectored me at the time.

As for getting the thread deleted; just how powerful do you think I am? If I had that power, that thread wouldn't have lasted 2 minutes after the first veiled insult nevermind 700+ posts. MNHQ wouldn't give anymore credence to a report from me than they do from anybody else.

I don't report many threads - I would have left this one stand actually so that posters could see the absolute twats on the site and avoid them in future. The fact that this one went should highlight to you that it wasn't an ok thread and that it was upsetting posters. That fact that this doesn't appear to register with you says quite a lot.

We're never going to agree on this and I'm ok with that. I'm not going to change my stance on threads like that. The fact that women love to judge each other seems pretty well-established, you only have to look at the tattoo thread for that but, more fool them. No wonder the Patriarchy laughs at us, as a sex we can't seem to stop tearing each other apart. Who needs enemies?!

[Gwenhwyfar]

Nobody was being 'persecuted' Naught.

[Gwenhwyfar]

Silently judging someone isn't tearing each other apart, is it? So much exaggeration here. So what if some people judge others who have tattoos?

[NaughtToThreeSadOnions]

You are proving exactly why that thread was deleted you like the others that though they could be nasty and judge disabled people, and claiming "free speech" are not listening!

There was disablitism, prejudice and persicution grounds of race, gender sexuality, age and DISABLITY is ILLEGAL and rightfully so.

That thread was nasty and upsetting! You are NOT listening.