Would I be a total bitch to insist on this from my DH?

[wantanotherbaby]

Either we have another baby or he gets a vasectomy?

Some background...

When we got married we agreed we wanted two children, I wanted three but I agreed to two. Fast forward a couple of years and we have ds who's brilliant, sleeps well, feeds well, an absolute charmer. There were early wobbles but nothing serious, just first time parenthood nerves.

Now he says he doesn't want another one. He has a series of reasons why...

1. we can't afford it. Money's tight but not that tight, we have some slack in our budget, and my mum and dad have said they will help us buy a house next year (we currently live in a 2 bed flat I bought 12 years ago so I've got quite a bit of equity)
   
   
2. He found it too stressful. Not once did he say when ds was little that it was stressing him out. I know he used to find it tough when ds cried, but as he hardly ever did, that was pretty rare. As I bf dh never got up for night feeds, he didn't even wake up usually.
   
   
3. His family caused him a lot of hassle - they were a pain in the butt, giving him grief about the name we chose for ds and the fact that they live so far away (they chose to live in a different country to their son, do they expect us to move 2000 miles to live near them?)
   
   
4. He was really shocked at how long new born babies do nothing. I think he was expecting to be playing football in the park with ds from about 2 months. I've pointed out that this time that won't be a problem as we'll have ds, who will be nearly 2 and really up for playing football in the park!
   
   This issue is really starting to drive a wedge between us. I pretend nothing is wrong, but I'm starting to resent him so much. The other day he was watching ds sleep and he said "isn't he cute, he's such a sweetie" and I wanted to yell "why can't we have another one then?" but I didn't.
   
   I did think about getting pg without his consent, I've told him I'm not following my cycle (well, that's almost true) and I won't go on the pill again. But I'd rather he was happy to have another child., plus I'm sure he'll know if I'm mysteriously up for it every 28 days. Even he's not that clueless about menstrual cycles!
   
   If want to give him an ultimatum, either we have another baby or he has a vasectomy. I want him to understand what it means to ask someone to never have another child.
   
   Sorry this is so long and rambling, I just don't know where to turn or what to do.

[posieflump]

How old is your ds?
He might change his mind at some point, ultimatums don't help, just cause arguments imo

[wantanotherbaby]

He's 11 months. I did think that perhaps he'd soften as ds approached maybe 2, but I'm 38 and I don't want to be having babies in to my 40s if I can help it.

[wantanotherbaby]

RE: the ultimatum thing... I really don't want to force it posie, but I don't know what else to do. I thought it might make him start to think about what he's asking me to give up if he gave up the possibility too. I agree though it's not the ideal way.

He says things like what if we have a really colicky baby who cries endlessly. I've reassured him that I can't guarantee we'll have another dream baby like ds, but I can guarantee I'll be a 100% more relaxed about having a newborn. Nothing gets through to him though.

[EffiePerine]

I don't think either DH or I were up for having another baby at 11 months tbh. I understand your worries about your age, but I'd leave it a few months and see if he changes his mind. There's a reason the average age gap is 2 years or a bit more! Loads of mums I know who have babies the same age as DS are pg again now (I'm 5 months pg, DS is 22 mo).

[WideWebWitch]

Poor you. I think you need to find out more about why he doesn't want another. I don't think you should give him an ultimatum as if he goes for vasectomy it won't get you what you want! And they're rarely a good way of sorting out genuine feelings and issues.

Second babies are, generally, so much easier because you know what you're doing to an extent and don't worry as much.

I think new borns are pretty boring (althoguh sweet too) - maybe he'll come around to the idea when your ds is a bit older and more fun? imo 4yos are fantastic and so lovely to be with but for me, it doesn't really get to be much fun until then, it's just a lot of work.

Have copied and pasted my views on his objections below:

1. we can't afford it. SECOND BABIES DON'T COST AS MUCH AS YOU ALREADY HAVE EVERYTHING. ESP IF YOU LEAVE IT UNTIL DS IS OUT OF BUGGY/NAPPIES
   
   
2. He found it too stressful. Not once did he say when ds was little that it was stressing him out. I know he used to find it tough when ds cried, but as he hardly ever did, that was pretty rare. As I bf dh never got up for night feeds, he didn't even wake up usually. TALK TO HIM ABOUT HOW HE REALLY FELT, MAYBE HE FOUND IT REALLY SHOCKING? I DID, WITH FIRST BABY. AND MAYBE HE FINDS THE RESPONSIBILITY TERRIFYING? I BET THERE#S MORE TO THIS THAN HE'S TOLD YOU
   
   
3. His family caused him a lot of hassle - they were a pain in the butt, giving him grief about the name we chose for ds and the fact that they live so far away (they chose to live in a different country to their son, do they expect us to move 2000 miles to live near them?) REALLY UNFAIR OF THEM, COULD YOU TALK TO HIM ABOUT STRATEGIES FOR NEXT TIME?
   
   
4. He was really shocked at how long new born babies do nothing. I think he was expecting to be playing football in the park with ds from about 2 months. I've pointed out that this time that won't be a problem as we'll have ds, who will be nearly 2 and really up for playing football in the park! AS I SAID ABOVE, JUST WAIT, HE WILL FIND IT ALL MUCH MORE INTERESTING A YEAR OR TWO.
   
   Good luck, I do think you should talk some more about this rather than deciding it's about telling him he must do one thing or another. I also tihn k it's not on to renege on an agreement you made about no of children (although appreciate that if you make that agreement before you have them you can't know how you'll feel about the reality of children!_

[isaidno]

I wouldn't suggest the vasectomy - you might be even more upset if he said yes and thought it was a good idea!
You need to really drive home the importance of your urge for another baby, and point out sooner rather than later is an issue re your age. (Not that I am saying you are old! )

He has some good points too - you will be cramped with 2 dc in a 2 bed flat, and the housing market is not great at the moment. More children do cost more, but not much more because you will have alot of stuff you need already. And he remembers not really enjoying the baby stage - but tbh that doesn't last too long.

[CantSleepWontSleep]

What if he agrees to a vasectomy? Would you be happy with that?

[WideWebWitch]

Oh, just read your first is only 11months, in which case I reckon leave it until he's 2 and your dh will come around, bet you.

[PortAndLemon]

I wouldn't push any ultimatum now. Give it another 6-8 months and then raise the subject again. He may well feel very different about it then.

[WideWebWitch]

You don't really want him to agree to a vasestomy, you just wnat to let him know how cross you are. It's really not a reasonable request!

[EffiePerine]

I think it's something to do with having 2 babies (and 11 mo is still a baby IME). Once they get to toddlerhood you start thinking about babies again.

Daft question, but is your DS eating, sleeping OK? Is he walking yet? DS didn't sleep through until 15 mo and no way would I have contemplated the idea of a newborn when my older baby was waking several times a night.

If you do give him an ultimatum and he does have the snip, you've lost your choice anyway, haven't you? What about asking him if you can leave it for now (but make contraception his responsibility) then discuss again in 4 or 5 months?

[EffiePerine]

actually make it 6 months - 17 mo DS - sounds about right...

[wantanotherbaby]

That was exactly one of my worries, what if he said yes to the vas... that's why I've held off.

www - thanks for your comprehensive reply. On the money front, we would be cramped in a 2 bed flat (although ds slept in his moses basket in our bedroom for 6 months so I presume new baby would do the same) but my mum and dad have said they will give me a significant chunk of the money they would have left me when they died to help us buy a house soon, we're thinking about next summer realistically. I also have 20K in savings to support us when I'm on mat leave, dh's salary is pretty good and steadily rising. I think this is a side issue.

I think the issue about how stressful he found it is a tougher one. Like all first time mothers I found it hard to listen to my baby crying so I would jump up when he did to comfort ds. But I can't stress this enough, ds cried so little, he was so brilliant, and he was sleeping 7-7 from 10 weeks, with no effort at all. I think the thing was he felt a bit helpless because I was the one who could settle ds. I've tried to explain it's a survival thing, newborn babies associate their mothers with security and food so of course they're more comforted by their mothers than their fathers. It doesn't last forever that stage.

His family is also another bugbear... they're a world away from my noisy, close knit family. They all live miles apart from each other and barely see each other. His father left them when dh was 10 and didn't see him again for 15 years. My PIL's divorce was horrible and despite the fact that he says it didn't affect him I'm sure it did. Not having a father around when he was 10-25 really rocked his confidence. You learn how to be a father from your own father, and as his wasn't brilliant to say the least, he has no confidence in his fathering skills. I try and reassure him constantly how much ds loves him but it's hard for him. Parenting doesn't come naturally for him.

Effie, to answer your question, ds sleeps brilliantly. He's been doing 7-7 since 10 weeks. I really know something's wrong if he wakes up during the night because it's such a rare thing. He's been walking since about 10 months and he's pretty good at eating. Some days he's a bit better than others but nothing to get stressed about.

I'm sure my broodiness is in part because now ds is walking he's feeling less like my baby which is natural I guess, but at the back of my mind is the feeling that if I wait to next summer to get pg I'll be almost 40 when the baby is born. I suppose a year can't make that much difference, but its that 40 thing that's glaring at me.

I will try and talk to him again. He tends to clam up when I do, that or he gets so upset he cries (which is awful to see). We're on holiday next week so we'll be away from all distractions of tv, computer, wii etc etc. Hopefully it won't ruin our holiday.

Sorry for yet another ramble...

[AbbaFan]

My DH didn't really want two children either. I did, but not straight away, as I enjoyed my time with DS1 so much I wanted to wait awile (also we were only 26 we DS1 was born , so plenty of time). We ended up with a 4 year difference, and it worked out perfect.

If I were you I wouldn't be worring about this just yet, as you DS is so young. Wait a year or so and then talk about it.

[EffiePerine]

well 40 is getting more usual for first babies and has always been common for subsequent babies in large families - my grandma had her last child at 45 . Def talk to your DH about it but be prepared to compromise as well: taking a hardline stance at this point is not going to help you case at all I'm afraid. I think with a second baby you need more support from your partner and not less, as you need someone to distract the toddler and let you have a bit of rest occasionally when you're pg!

[JuneBugJen]

wait a while, kids become easier and its easier for the dh to forget all the 'bad' stuff. My dd was 2.5 before dh was ready for the next one. You are being very impatient with him, although I understand why.

[EffiePerine]

oh and when DH broached the idea of baby no. 2 when DS was about 18mo I was initially 'no WAY, can't we wait a bit?' So if you've been discussing this with him already, and your DS is only 11 mo, I can see why he might be getting a bit spooked!

[AbbaFan]

Sorry X post (to OP), I can understand your urgency with with your 40th coming up.

Talk to DH while your away, without the pressure though. Just explain you are worried about leaving it to much longer, and having another baby is really important to you.

[wantanotherbaby]

Yeah, my sister was almost 40 when she had her second. I'm irrationally terrified of the increased risk of having a baby with Down Syndrome. DH has always said he couldn't cope with a disabled child. It's silly I know. DH has also said he doesn't want to still have young ish children when he's in his fifties and if we have another one now, he'll be in his mid fifties before he/she leaves full time education. I think that has also made me feel time is of the essence.

Another one of dh's arguments is that we're just coming out of the baby years and he doesn't want to go in to them all again, he says we're just getting our life back and that a baby would severely restrict us again. He misses the sponteneity of our old life, but I've pointed out that with ds we can't just nip off for a weekend in Rome anyway.

The only glimmer of hope last time we discussed it was he said, show me some evidence that only children end up wierd and then we'll have another one, so I've been hunting the internet for any old hokum that says this . Of course it's not true, there's no evidence that they do end up wierd... of course if I could find some dodgy bit of research somewhere.....

[wantanotherbaby]

sobernow - birth was fine. DS was born by elective cs as he was footling breech. I had no problems at all post cs either, no infections or problems moving about. I went for an hour long walk a week afterwards with no problems.

JuneBugJen - I know it sounds like I'm pestering him but I'm not really, we've only discussed it twice. I will take the pressure off though.

[JuneBugJen]

oh gosh, didnt realise there was a time frame. I can see how this puts pressure on you.

Perhaps leave it 6 months and keep leaving those aricles around the place. Also point out that siblings can entertain each other well, whereas we finally had another one because of the fear that WE would always have to be Bobo the clown for our DD!

[wantanotherbaby]

JuneBug... I have pointed out that if we don't have another child, summer holidays for the next 15 years will sound like this...

"daddy, daddy, play with me. Daddy play with me, daddy throw me up in the air, daddy come in the pool with me, daddy daddy, stop reading that book, daddy come and push me on the swing, daddy why are you lying down sunbathing PLAY WITH ME NOW!!"

He has a really big age gap between him and his sister so he never had summer holidays with her and doesn't understand how much children entertain each other. I got really tearful the other day when I thought of ds on Christmas morning sitting in his bed on his own opening his stocking. It really made me well up thinking of my own childhood Christmasses, sitting in bed at some unGodly hour with my sister, giggling, opening our stockings and eating chocolate, going downstairs and prodding all our presents. I really want ds to have happy childhood memories like that...