Lies, cheating and too many complications

[isenoughenough]

I don't even know where to start here, it's all very complicated. My current situation is driving me nuts, I just don't know what to do, or who to talk to. So I am hoping that getting it off my chest here will help.

I am pregnant with our second child, DS is 20 months. I have been with DH for nearly 3 years.

In February, the day before Valentines (nice) He told me he wanted a break from our relationship. We have been having issues that mostly revolve around our sex life declining while I was pregnant and looking after a small child. We have had a bad few months, a miscarriage, SS intervention (from a false report), me being bullied at work and antenatal depression. For completeness I should say that he also told me he had considered leaving when I was 36 weeks pg with DS, but sorted himself out and told me he was in it for the long haul. He told me he had cheated on me (oral sex) twice, since I was pregnant.

We had discussed him seeing other women previously, but I realised that I would have difficulty with this, and he had agreed not to. I have been in open relationships before, but this is marriage, and I considered that to be exclusive.

The next day he told me he had thought about it, my reaction (I was devastated) showed I still cared about him, he thought I didn't, he cheated because he was lonely and felt unloved, and I agreed to try and work things out. We agreed to go to Relate, but this never happened as we didn't have childcare.

Shortly afterwards, my best friend who had recently split up with her boyfriend came to stay with us. Both she and I are bisexual, and have a fairly flirtatious relationship, DH encourages this, he is happy for me to have relationships with women separately to our marriage, but I have never acted on it. While she was with us, one thing led to another and she and I began a relationship, with full disclosure and DH's blessing. It was completely unexpected, but actually had a positive impact on me and DH, as I was generally happier having the company and affection from her.

She (and me and DH) has an interest in BDSM, I have always been OK with DH taking part in non-sexual BDSM (like spanking) with other women, and it was proposed that he could do that with BF. I had no issue with this.

Then he came to me and asked how I would feel, hypothetically if things got sexual with her. I was surprisingly OK with this, it was a "sometime in the future, maybe" sort of question, and she was about to go away on work for a while, so I felt we had a cooling off period, I also didn't think she was into him like that, and a bit like I had to say yes as he was OK with me sleeping with her. I told him I didn't see it as a huge problem, as long as their relationship wasn't romantic, and they took precautions. I also wanted him to disclose if anything happened, just so I knew, not gory details, just a heads up so I wasn't in the dark. We were actually very settled in this poly type of agreement, I knew he wasn't going to go off with a stranger, and I love them both dearly.

So time went by, she went off for her work, then she fell ill. She went abroad for a bit, and was still ill, she stopped talking to me and DH got a bit stressy and short with me. He was generally being an arse and I seriously started reconsidering the idea of working things out with him.

Then he dropped the bomb. The day after he had spoken to me about it, when dropping her back home, he had slept with her. She was pregnant, and planning a termination when she got back to the UK, he was sad, as a father that his child would be aborted, and she was feeling terribly guilty. For several weeks he had lied to me, we even joked about how he wasn't getting sex with her any time soon as she was busy or ill and maybe fate was cockblocking him. But it wasn't. Eventually (days later) he admitted they had sex 3 times, twice when she came and stayed with us to recuperate as she was feeling ill.

I am not bothered that they had sex, I had agreed with that, I am also not bothered that she accidentally fell pregnant, it is really sad to see them going through the angst of it all, but is was an accident. I am really, really bothered about the lying. He had many opportunities to tell me, but he hid the fact that they were having sex, and the pregnancy from me, even when we talked about it. I am also angry at him for putting our health (his, hers, mine and my unborn child) at risk by having unprotected sex without the precautions or tests we had agreed upon.

So last night we sat down and I told him that I was really fed up with the lies, and hiding things from me, I can't keep trying to rebuild the relationship when he keeps breaking my trust. I wanted to hear about the circumstances in which he cheated before, to clear the questions and start with a blank slate and no secrets. Then he tells me that actually he had previously cheated on me 3 times, twice 2 years ago when I was pg with DS, when our relationship was good, and we hadn't discussed any level of openness, before we were married.

I feel completely betrayed, it's like he can't actually tell me the whole truth about anything, when stuff has come out he has drip fed me the details, telling me that is it, then later it comes out that there was something else.

I love him, I want to raise our 2 babies with him, and for everything to be fine again, but is it even possible to rebuild trust after all this?

[isenoughenough]

Crikey that's a long one, sorry and well done if you get through it!

[Abitwobblynow]

Yes, it is the lies and the breaking of agreements that really really kill what you have, not the sex.

So, now what? He sounds very immature, it's all about him. I mean, who cares that you are pregnant/ill/sad/tired? You SHOULD be exclusively looking after HIM and HIS needs which of course must come first at all times!

If they don't, then he is entitled to have his needs met.

That is your problem I think.

[JustHecate]

Yes. The problem here is the lies. It doesn't matter if there's 2 or 200 people in your relationship, as long as it is by genuine mututal agreement and there is honesty.

But it seems like he gets a thrill from the deception.

That's never going to work.

[Smum99]

My initial thoughts are that you have rushed so much of this relationship - been together less than 36 months, ds 20 months so you obviously got pg and married very quickly. DO you know this man?

I think you need to focus on the babies - forget these relationships, both are toxic and provide a stable environment for your children. Even if that means you have to do this on your own..

[mummakaz]

I wouldn't be able to stay with someone that cheated and your bf should get a bloody earfull too. At the end of the day they both went behind your back.

How disgusting that they didn't use protection and now she's pregnant. I couldn't get over that sorry and how the hell was it an accident her getting pregnant when they never used protection?

[doormat]

pfftt what a mess...seems to me you want it all your way...you can be sexually satisfied with a lesbian relationship but this man cant be satisfied as you class this as cheating, as you dont want an OPEN marriage...sorry but what was your lesbo affair indirectly saying to your hubby...it was saying, yes i can be satisfied by this woman but as a man putting his love rocket in the launching pad was unsatisfying, he must of been devastated and his pride must of been hurt and psychologically he has regained his pride bk by targetting the source of the hurt and that is the other woman you were having an affair with...now she is up the duff...sorry love but i think you have both been pretty selfish of your own needs in this marriage...

moral of the story is sometimes openess in a marriage (regarding sexual matters)can be just as destructive as a lie....

[ThePinkPussycat]

However much you sort out sexual relationships intellectually, biology can come along and mess things up... because sex is designed to make babies, and (at least in women ) sex is designed to make emotional attachment. So sorry you've had to learn this the hard way.

It may be that honesty from him would have helped, but it may not have done, either.

Perhaps not a v helpful post, but I do wish all of you all the best.

[isenoughenough]

Sorry, some clearer things:

We were close friends before we became a couple for 8 years, I thought I did know him very well.

doormat, we did not have an open marriage, because he knew I was bisexual he told me from the start he was OK with me sleeping, or having romantic relationships with women, I never felt like taking him up on this, but if I had it would have been after discussion, he pretty much matchmaked me and BF, but it wasn't "open" it was about one person. When he cheated with the 3 women before february, it was cheating, we did not have an open relationship, I had not been with anyone else, he had asked for an open relationship before the third, but we decided that as I wasn't completely comfortable with it, it shoudn't happen.

The sex with my bf was not cheating, I was surprised it happened that quickly, but I had consented, I didn't expect him to hide it from me. Again, the consent was just with her, not an open relationship, a polyamorous triad with "rules"

My relationship with her was new, we have only slept together once.

Like Hecate says, it's not about the sex, at all. I really don't care that they had sex. I care that he lied about it, repeatedly, and even when given the opportunity to splurge all without predjudice, he held important elements back.

[isenoughenough]

HereIgo, when it was one woman, one man and one marriage, he still cheated on me 3 times, and kept it quiet for over 2 years. I don't really feel the poly bit is the major issue, it's a matter of honesty.

[isenoughenough]

from his side i should add that he claims he didn't tell me because he didn't want to upset me, he is very remorseful, completely beside himself, he really wants to
start afresh and put things right. So do I, but I just don't know how possible that might be.

[doormat]

polyamorous triad/ affair or whateva you call it means the same word cheating...ok your dh is a liar, seems a common trait in most of the male species (as i said most not all, before the nit picking brigade hits my case) but your affair with your bf and no matter how many times/with or without permission etc has been the catalyst with this man....look at it from a psychological perspective and you will see the pain you have BOTH caused...

[IDontWantToBeFatAnymore]

Goodness. What a mess. Where do you want to go from here as it strikes me that neither of you is 100% happy and fulfilled in this marriage and you need to decide what you both want and if that means staying together. Your poor children .

[isenoughenough]

Doormat, I think you are completely misunderstanding. He had sexual relationships 3 times, with 2 women BEFORE BF and I became involved. Whatever you think about poly relationships I didn't drive him to it with a "lesbian affair". It may even be the other way around, when I thought we were "exclusive" I felt like their was a seal on our relationship that he broke, and that made me more inclined to take up his suggestion that I became involved with BF. If he had asked for exclusivity, or even if he had just practiced it, I would have left it be. You might blame me for his liasons with BF, but everything else was beforehand, and I, by every definition of the term, was faithful to him.

"Your poor children" My children are fine thanks. They have a mum and dad who love them an awful lot and will always do our best for them. Whether they end up being raised full time by just me, or by the pair of us, they will be loved and cared for, happy and healthy.

[doormat]

correct me if i am wrong but sequence of events are basically like this.you both sexless due to tiredness/pregnancy etc/.dh has 3 liasions or blowjobs off other women..he told you, he was remorseful, he asked for open marriage...you are devastated...husband bks off open mariage....you try n work things out/ you have lesbo affair with friend....(backed by hubby)dh then had it off with your lover/your lover is up the duff...

dont you see he was trying to get you more interested in sex again by suggesting your lesbo affair/to kik start your marriage but it has backfired as he seen something in you like in your own words


""It was completely unexpected, but actually had a positive impact on me and DH, as I was generally happier having the company and affection from her.""

his male pride geneticsm kicked in big time and he had to prove himself as a man.....as a result your lover is pregnant...as from your own words you sparkled with your lesbo lover, he lost control and he had to fight for some back

call me old fashioned but once you play with fire, you are going to get burned...i cannot believe your sheer audacity that you are just the wounded one/the injured party, yes he did cheat on you before but at least he showed the remorsefulness to try and sort something out as he identified a problem and tried to resolve it by asking for an open marriage/ a lover for you etc most men dont do that so he must have some very strong feelings for you to try and keep you happy ....most men would just carry on selfishly getting their needs met whilst poor little wifey sits bk at home none the wiser...

[isenoughenough]

No the timeline is not correct, in full, TMI and all it goes like this:

Christmas 2009 - We are in an exclusive relationship. I am in very early pregnancy, sex life is OK, about once or twice a week, still a bit kinky, it's been better and he wants sex every day, but is apparently happy.
dec/jan 2009 - He meets up with a female friend for blow jobs, twice, while out of town sorting family business.
I had SPD in pregnancy, sex went down to about once a fortnight then once a month, at his request, he didn't like me wincing in pain during sex.
Summer 2010 - he goes away for a weekend that turns into a week, returns to tell me he was considering leaving.
DS born - traumatic birth, emcs but after about 8 weeks we are having sex a bit.
We get married.
Sex is still about once a fortnight to month, he is clearly frustrated, he asks if I would be OK with him going elsewhere, I say OK if he must, but break down crying, he says it's not worth it to upset me.
This repeats about 4 months later.
At some point around this time I wake to find he has been masturbating with my hand while I sleep. Am disgusted, lacking trust, sex declines to about once a month, I am still helping him masturbate inbetween. I try to have more sex but it hurts and I am really anxious, I start sex therapy.
Autumn 2011, I fall pregnant, but miscarry, then fall pregnant again. We are having sex about once a fortnight.
Jan 2012 - He gets sexual favours from a different woman.
Feb 2012 - he tells me he wants to split, he tells me he has cheated twice during this pregnancy (this is not true)
Feb/March 2012 - BF moves in, she likes spanking, DH likes spanking, I don't, it is suggested he could spank her to scratch both their itches, I have no issue with this, he has spanked other women during our relationship. He tells me that this will be enough to expend his testosterone, he doesn't think he will need sex with other women, me and S&M with her would be enough.
A week or so later, he tells BF that I am genuinely attracted to her, he tells me vice versa, he encourages us to pursue a relationship. She and I kiss a couple of times over a week or so.
BF and I sleep together - DH is told and is happy for us.
DH and I have sex a couple of times that week
DH asks if he can have sex with bf, I agree as long as they take precautions, I am already concerned about possible STIs from previous women esp as I am pregnant.
Next day he does, she gets pregnant.
A few weeks later she comes to stay with us because she is ill (now I know, morning sickness) they have sex twice over the weekend. I make no moves on her, she is ill, I am looking after her.

Last week, he tells me they did sleep together, just once, and she is pregnant.
Yesterday, he tells me they slept together more than once, and the details about the 3 earlier encounters, for the first time I realise that he has been unfaithful, not in the last 4 months, but over the last 2 years.

I really appreciate feedback on this, I know it's all a bit soap opera, but it's my life, and I can't talk about it with my 2 closest friends, because they are involved, or any other friends as BF is keeping the abortion secret, she is mortified and angry with herself. So here is the only place I can actually get an objective opinion.

Doormat, I do appreciate the opposing view, it helps with the balance, but the Daily Mail language ("lesbo affair, really?) and attitude (a man has the right to cheat on his pregnant wife if she's not putting out much? I am going through difficult therapy to try and put things right FFS) doesn't really help. I can't help but feel you are more interested in criticising my sexuality than helping me save my marriage/salvage a functional family life.

[ErikNorseman]

I have to say I think doormat is onto something with this his male pride geneticsm kicked in big time and he had to prove himself as a man.....as a result your lover is pregnant...as from your own words you sparkled with your lesbo lover, he lost control and he had to fight for some back

Poly triad or not, negotiated boundaries or not, this is a messed up situation. He's clearly not mature enough to handle a poly relationship is he, because he (and she) broke the rules at first opportunity. In such situations the dishonesty and lying are the hurtful aspects. He's a liar, many times over.

[isenoughenough]

Erik, I think you might be right, I did wonder if there was a hint of jealousy there, but also I know that he ties S&M together with sex, so asking if I might not mind if one progressed into the other at some point didn't raise any alarm bells. Also he will swear blind, with no consequences based on his answers that he has no jealousy issues, he was apparently very happy for us. But yes I think there may be some unconcious chest beating going on.

To be fair on her, she only knew the rules as he told them. I expected to discuss the situation with her in the future, but then she was away, then ill, so it wasn't pertinent (I really didn't think him driving her home that evening would include sex). He may not have actually told her as I put things, but as he wanted them, or even just as he "heard" them. He has a way of hearing what he wants to hear and mis remembering conversations to his advantage.

[Crocodilio]

I think it is more important in an open/poly type of relationship to have complete honesty. He seems incapable of this, and rather more focused on having his 'itches scratched' without considering your feelings. I guess the future of your relationship depends on whether you can be happy with this in the future - I couldn't.

Why did you feel you needed sex therapy? After what you had been through, a lower sex drive would seem entirely normal. Did he make you feel guilty that you were having less sex?

You also don't seem to be querying the actions of your best friend - she hasn't acted very well towards you either. Why did she think it was ok to sleep with your husband without talking to you about it first, particularly with no protection? Even knowing your relationship was an open one, it doesn't seem like she acted very honourably. And then to come and stay with you knowing that she was pregnant with your husband's child, but not tell you, whilst being happy for you to look after her - I'd say that was the behaviour of a Class A bitch.

[isenoughenough]

Croc, I think you are right, what he is promising me now is an exclusive relationship, no lies, rebuilding things, no itch scratching, being a grown up. I just don't know if I have the reserves to watch him fuck that one up as well.

I am in sex therapy because I was abused as a teenager, have a long history of self-esteem issues, anxiety and self harm as a result. DS birth left me really traumatised and fearful of medics, DH didn't help with being pushy, making me feel guilty and molesting me in my sleep. I have another baby due, planned as a home VBAC because the suggestion of being in hospital again sets me into panic and tears. I need to be able to have a smear test without crying and cutting myself afterwards, and I want to be able to have sex without it hurting, and to enjoy it, it is frustrating for me too. I do feel more let down about the time he has cheated since I have been in therapy, I feel like I am working hard to make things better for us, but he gave up on me and went elsewhere.

I am finding it hard to be angry with BF. She should have talked to me first, but she trusted his word, she should have used protection, but she is suffering for that now, horribly. She has been very, very ill with the pregnancy at a time when she needs to be finding work and a place to live, and as a woman in her 30s, who wants children (but is currently not in the situation to have one), is finding the abortion very hard to deal with. I really think she is suffering enough. She didn't want to tell me because she knew things had been rocky with DH and didn't want to break us up, and because she was ashamed and thought I would hate her. I really don't, I still love her she made a stupid mistake and is paying for it. She did something I had agreed to and it went wrong, then hid one thing from me. I can forgive that and continue to be friends. DH has been doing much worse for much longer.

[Crocodilio]

You sound like a kind, giving person who still has huge issues with your self- esteem. I can't imagine either wanting to continue in a relationship with a man who had done this to me, or a friendship with someone who had acted as your friend has.

My advice, FWIW, would be to have at least a temporary separation from your husband, while concentrating on both creating a stress-free environment to give birth, and also counselling to bolster your feelings of self-worth so that you don't feel that you have to put up with shit like this in the future.

[oikopolis]

OP...
i hope you can take this in the manner in which it's intended: you sound like you need an enormous amount of therapy.

in reading your initial post i kept thinking "damn, there seem to be very few clear boundaries in this woman's life..." and then as you elaborated more, that just became clearer and clearer.

Your DH is sexually abusive. that whole doing stuff while you're asleep thing? legally (never mind morally), that's sexual assault.

it sounds like you feel under enormous sexual pressure from him (eg saying it's ok to have an open r/s and then sobbing over it out of distress). it sounds like you forgive the wrong things, regularly push your feelings aside, and are confused about what you feel is OK and you don't, frankly. you sound conflicted, and afraid of rejection.

I would put money on your H choosing you as a partner because he knew you were a person who struggled with boundaries and would put up with a lot of violation as long as he spun the right tale for you...

i don't think you're in a good place, and i don't think you chose a man who enriches your life. it sounds like he just triggers allllll those nasty things that broke your heart and confused you when you were a teenager. you're acting out things from the past with him, i feel. instead of healing properly and establishing a sense of self, separate to your past abuse.

my impression comes partly from what you've written, and partly from my own intuition/reading between the lines... so obviously i can't pretend i'm speaking the gospel truth here, i just don't know.

but based on my impression, i would say, please just get out of this marriage and get yourself into intensive talk therapy. not just sex therapy, but proper psychotherapy and/or trauma counselling. you need to get yourself straightened out and functioning healthily before you try to maintain a marriage. let alone a complex poly one, where the boundaries can become hugely blurred unless all involved are v sure of themselves.

i wish you the best of luck.

[Doha]

She is not a friend and he is not a DP.
You would do well to get shot of both of them and concentrate on bringing up your DC's.
It's not the sex it's the lies and deception again and again that have killed your relationships.
I would not believe anything that came out his mouth again. Of course he is beside himself. He was having his cake and eating it and now it has all been taken away from him.
Well tough shit.
Have you thought about an STI check?

[doormat]

is enoughenough sorry but your last statement is completely wrong and i have never read the daily mail in my life....i apologise if my words have made you upset they were never intended to, i am an old lady who has experienced 30 years of marriages and relationships of my own and through seeing friends/acquaintances etc so have pretty much alot of life experience and one thing i will say time and time again and that is
once a cheat..always a cheat (if you can come bk from that well done and ppl must be applauded)
the same as a liar, once a liar, always a liar....you cant stop it...after reading your second timeline i must say i was gobsmacked...how dare he place your hand on his bits...that is sexual assault and i agree with oik, croc n erik that the best thing to do is get out of the relationship altogether
fwiw i have not got a problem with your sexuality/ and not once did i have the put out attitude, my attitude is based on psychological aspects of personalities and the harm it can do to both parties not just one...i am really sorry if i have upset it was never meant and may i suggest if he uses masturbation cream like ky jelly, replacing it with super glue so it will tear the bleedin stonks off him ...

[isenoughenough]

Thanks all, it's given me a lot to think about.

I'm already in as much therapy as I can get I have a counsellor for general issues and my sex therapy lady is a psychotherapist who is also a sexual health Dr (really rare that she is both a medic and a therapist, I'm really lucky to have her) I have done 2 bouts of CBT and one of counselling before. My therapist has pointed out that there are things I pick up in relationships that come from my past, and I have worked through some of that with DH too.

And there will be tests, oh yes. Him first.