Fair for him to do this when I might leave?

[cathkidstonbag]

I post on the EA thread as my DH is without a doubt one of these. But I now have an issue that I need to resolve quickly and needs opinions on ...
One of the "sticking points" in our marriage has been DHs refusal to have a vasectomy. Basically I should not have any more children and cannot be sterilised (medical reasons). So this is really the only option (chemical solutions don't suit me either). DHs reasoning has always been that he might want DC "with his second wife". I'll just point out here that he regularly tells me he didn't want the DC we have.
Anyhow for some reason he seems to be on nice mode atm, keen to do anything for me and as such has arranged his consultant appt for the snip for next week and hopes to get it done privately the week after.
Now for all I know this could be a great thing for our marriage, a sign he wants to work at it. But at the moment I'm about 70% sure I want to leave him so it would be very unfair of me to let him go through this and then walk away ... wouldn't it???

[shesgotherlipstickon]

Yes it would. if you think you are more than likely to leave him.

It sounds to me you are using this as a kind of retribution for the way he has treated you, the way your relationship has gone.

Let him get the vasectomy, as he's being nice now, when you have practically made up your mind to walk out.

Not nice, not justifiable. It's pretty horrible of you to consider letting him doing this without telling him.

His treatment of you is no excuse to fuck around with his life in such a manner and physical health. If you want to leave, leave, tell him, stop messing about.

Ever thought it might be 6 of one, half a dozen of each other? Sounds like it.

[Tortoiseonthehalfshell]

Does he know you're thinking of leaving? I'm assuming he does, if he's in 'nice' mode?

[purits]

Vasectomies are reversible.

[cathkidstonbag]

He knows I am thinking of leaving, I have been perfectly open with him about that.
He has been refusing to do this for 5 years, while our marriage has fallen apart in many other ways. But this has had a huge impact on it. To every month have the fear that I might be pg when I know to keep the pg would mean serious medical issues ... the worry has been immense.
I have tried to tell him we may still be over, but he won't listen.
And leaving somebody you have 20 years of marriage and 3 DC with isn't an easy task. Or one I'm taking lightly!

[ImperialBlether]

If the only thing wrong with your marriage is the fact you two can't make love to each other without the risk of pregnancy, then yes, let him have the op and your marriage will be even better.

However, if there are other problems, get them sorted first and discuss the vasectomy later.

If you want to leave and are certain that's the only way for you to be happy in the future, then hold fire until you're ready to go, but leave him intact, in case he wants to make another woman unhappy.

[SayItLoud]

Why not stop having sex with him if you are 70% sure you are going to leave him? Then you don't need to have the worry about pregnancy, and he doesn't need a vasectomy.

[babyhammock]

I'd say that he's only going through with the consultation for the vasectomy is because he thinks your serious about leaving him. This is purely so he can use it to stop you leaving... 'how dare you leave me after I've done this for you'....type of thing and not because he has decided to start wanting to work on your marriage or because he's thinking of you. He is only serving hisown interests.

A reasonable person wouldn't operate this way (saying he'll have a V when he knows your thinking of leaving!!!!!!). Don't let him do it, you will never hear the end of it. You know this nice phase wont last. I bet he's had a few of them in the last 20years that has kept you there :( xx

[cathkidstonbag]

babyhammock - yes I think you've hit the nail on the head there. My problem is he's got me either way on this. If I tell him not to go through with it he will hold over me the whole"I offered, I was trying for you and you didn't want to make things work". He wins on this whichever way. I can just imagine him telling people "I even did that but she still left me ..." conveniently forgetting the years of crap I have put up with.

Sayitloud - yes I can see how that might work and it is the status quo I Truro maintain. Both for my sanity and also because it's very hard to want to sleep with someone who treats you badly. Not an ideal longterm solution though. He knows I am fine if he wants to sleep with someone else, have no problems with dropping that from our marriage. He isn't so keen on that idea.

[cathkidstonbag]

try to!

[LaLaLaLayla]

But at the moment I'm about 70% sure I want to leave him so it would be very unfair of me to let him go through this and then walk away ... wouldn't it???

This would be totally unfair! What a fucked up situation. I am not sure who I feel more sorry for, probably him, actually.

[Lilyloo]

I agree , he will only be 'offering' this now as a way hold over you. I also think people need to take note of this line of the op

'I post on the EA thread as my DH is without a doubt one of these'

I would not engage him other than saying it is your choice , i am not having any part of this decision.

[WibblyBibble]

TBH it'd probably be a favour you're doing for his 'second wife' to get him to have a vasectomy so she's not stuck with him trying to protect kids from his childish idiocy. I do feel that it's unfair when people try and control others' fertility, e.g. the men who say they'll have children 'one day' and then bugger off when partner is in her late 30s, still without children, pretty much leaving her with no choice (happened to a friend of mine)- this is very similar. However, a vasectomy is reversible and the menopause isn't. I dunno, why don't you just say it's up to him if he wants to get it? More men should- the number of men I know who say they never want children but still refuse to take any responsibility for contraception is shocking.

[LaLaLaLayla]

Lilyloo, with respect we only have the OP's word for that. I think coercing your DP in having a vasectomy when you are thinking of leaving him is one of the most appalling things I've ever heard. It's like the OP wants to prevent him from having kids with anybody else. OP, I really hope you don't make him go through with it.

It sounds like the sooner you guys split, the better. I wish you both luck.

[cathkidstonbag]

I'm not coercing him! I first suggested it (on Drs advice) 5 years ago. Then every few months it has come up in conversation. Hasn't been mentioned at all since before Xmas until a big argument where he was complaining about our sex life when I reminded him of it. But at the time I also told him how I really think our marriage can't be saved, with his refusal to see anything wrong with it! Now we suddenly have this appt booked and him going on about how he is doing it for us. But he knows there might not be an us anymore!!!
It might help, might at least show that for once in the last 5 years he is prepared to do something for me. But it might really be too little too late.

Right I think I need to entirely turn the decision over to him and make him see that he is not doing it for me.

[LaLaLaLayla]

Hmm, maybe he is being a bit manipulative. But whatever, it really doesn't sound like this relationship can be saved.

[honeyandsalt]

It's his body. Sounds to me like he's doing it because it doesn't want any more kids + he can hold it over you.

Make it clear it's his body, his decision, if he's sure doesn't want any more children he can do it if he wants but don't do it "for me" as your relationship is on the rocks. And remind him of this convo if he tries to use it against you in future.

I think you need a good chat with your GP about viable contraception methods. Off the top of my head what about condoms + a diaphragm + spermacide?

[babyhammock]

Justcallmebellatrix... yup hun, you will not be able to win with him whatever you do...you know that. I bet that's the same in nearly every other area of your life with him too.
If he goes ahead with the V he will forever use it as a stick to beat you with and yes every man and his dog will know he did that for you.

Even from the few posts I've read of yours, he sounds utterly exhausting.
I don't want to tell anyone to leave but 20 years of crap is a lot and if you're young enough to be worried about getting pregnant with him, please don't waste any more of your life on this manipulative arsehole. Get out now and be happy

My line to him would be 'I don't care what you do as I'm leaving you. Nothing you say or do will change my mind. Anything you do from now on is your choice and I will not accept any responsibility for any decisions you make from now on' ... I'd even be tempted to sign and date it cos I bet he'd deny the conversation happened. Also, doesn't the wife have to agree to a vasectomy? Don't agree to or sign anything and make your position clear to anyone who happnes to be involved with the process including your doctor.

And to the other posters who have implied sympathy with the hubby.., please read the OP's post properly.

PS he's not won either way either. He offered the V under completely unreasonable circumstances... namely only offering it because he knows you want to leave. If he tries to put it on you that he offered and you refused.. which I have no doubt that he will.......that is the argment of a self serving emotionally abusive person. A normal nice person wouldn't say that. The offer would remain open until you sorted all the other problems out too and not used against you. But he isn't a normal nice person and never will be

Long post ..sorry x

[ShoutyHamster]

'My problem is he's got me either way on this. If I tell him not to go through with it he will hold over me the whole"I offered, I was trying for you and you didn't want to make things work". He wins on this whichever way. I can just imagine him telling people "I even did that but she still left me ..." conveniently forgetting the years of crap I have put up with.'

Does it matter?

'I was trying for you...' - answer: 'Well it was too little too late, and only done in order to stop me leaving. Which isn't 'trying', it's 'emotional blackmail' - I don't love you anymore after all the crap I've put up with, so I'm leaving, and your vasectomy, or lack of it, is now your business.'

"I even did that but she still left me ..." - answer: 'I left him because I didn't love him after all the crap I put up with, which included refusing to consider a vasectomy for years despite my medical history. So that's the real story MIL/mum/Suzie down the road, want another cuppa?'

If you don't love him, leave him. It sounds like your marriage is over, so do what's right for you. But don't let any decision you make be swayed by any sort of emotional blackmail - it won't work, it won't mend things. No it isn't great news for your marriage - he doesn't want to 'work on it', he wants to stop you leaving him. And if he's the type to blackmail and twist things in this way, he'll find a way to do it no matter what the topic!

So you have to ignore that and make a careful, considered decision on what YOU want to do. Which sounds as if it should involve leaving him, fwiw - he sounds like an absolute knob. Next time he brings up the vasectomy, keep a dead straight face and say, 'Well, I'm not sure I should have any say in this decision any more. It's such a pity your second wife isn't around yet, it really should be something you should talk through with her. You've talked about her so much she's almost a reality to me now! Sorry, I'm a bit distracted at the moment as I'm so pleased to no longer have to sleep with a selfish twat who regularly puts my health at risk.'

[ThereGoesTheFear]

I'd tell him that if he's really doing it for your sake, then he'd do it to your, not his, timetable. Get him to set a date for 6 months from now.

Say that you both know that there's a real possibility that you might split, so if he goes ahead with it then it's his his choice and not what you want right now. I'd put it in an email. More for your sake than his: so that if he does go ahead with it, and you're tempted to stay just because he has made this 'sacrifice', you can look back and reassure yourself that you were honest with him.

Of course, there's always the possibility that he's calling your bluff.

And have you thought about barrier methods in the meantime (condom/cap)? sounds like an awful worry for you.

[ThereGoesTheFear]

PS The fact that you feel you have to have sex with him, despite the huge health risks, when you would happily drop it from the relationship... what an awful place to be.

[babyhammock]

Contraception.. sounds like you sleep with him to keep the peace/not inflame him... and not because you want to at all. Who cares if he doesn't like it...

You don't have to do that anymore x

[cathkidstonbag]

Thanks all so very much. I feel much clearer now about it all. I do think he's using it as something to hold over me. Like the way he always buys me presents when he knows he's really messed up. Like the way he insisted he wanted another baby 5 years ago because he knew I was going to leave. His first words when I told him I was pg. "oh great, another kid just what I DIDN'T want" then when I'd asked him why had he said he did? He told me he knew I was leaving and wanted me to stay :(
We use condoms, I insist on that but they aren't 100% are they? And I know I fall pg really easily (3 unprotected times = 3 DCs!!!).
And no I don't want to sleep with him anymore, the words quiet life sum that up. I can't see that changing. I can't see me suddenly want to swing from the chandeliers with a man who tells me how much I turn him off and doesn't believe in foreplay/talking/affection anymore. Arrrggghhhh I'm digressing sorry!

[prh47bridge]

A couple of people have said vasectomies are reversible. That is true but they should not be regarded as reversible. Reversal is expensive and, even if it is mechanically successful, there is evidence that men who have undergone this procedure produce more abnormal sperm. This leads to a lower chance of fertility. Only around 50%-70& of men who have had a vasectomy reversed are subsequently able to father a child. It also leads to a higher chance of birth defects. He should therefore regard vasectomy as final.

Speaking as a man, I personally find the idea of vasectomy somewhere between frightening and terrifying. I believe that is the case for many men and I know there is evidence that a lot of men who undergo the procedure struggle with it emotionally afterwards even though most are happy with their decision. I love my wife but I'm not sure I could have a vasectomy for her (badly phrased but I can't think of the right way to put it). Thankfully she doesn't want me to have one so that isn't an issue.

My suggestion would be to tell him that if he wants to have a vasectomy regardless of what happens to the relationship that is up to him but if he is doing it to try and save the marriage he should wait until the two of you have figured out whether or not the marriage can be saved. Clearly a lot of change would be needed. Talking about not wanting a vasectomy because he might want children with his second wife is stupid and insensitive, as is saying he doesn't want your existing children.

I don't know him and haven't looked at anything on the EA thread so I am not going to judge his motives from the few details posted here. I don't know whether he is a "self serving emotionally abusive person" who will use this as a stick to beat you with or someone who is frightened of vasectomy who has finally realised he has to face up to his fears or lose you.

Whatever happens I hope it turns out for the best for you and your children.

[ShoutyHamster]

Oh God, leave him. He sounds either horrible, or a man who is equally as 'done' with the relationship as you. If he's the type who'd rather make your life hell for not providing the relationship he wants, instead of having the guts and foresight to leave and move on himself, then it goes double - LEAVE.

And no, you do not have to sleep with anyone you do not wish to sleep with. Even if that man is the one you married.

He tells you how much you turn him off?

If it's a quiet life you're after, it would seem that leaving him would be a good way to obtain that!

[honeyandsalt]

Past behaviour is generally the best indicator if future behaviour.

Why are you still with him? Do you think he's going to change, even though he doesn't want to? Is that realistic?

Personally I think this vasectomy issue is a red herring, what you should be doing is a trial seperation.