Has my loft been insulated before? (picture included)

[Koalafications]

The house is freezing and I have British Gas coming to check if we are eligible for free loft insulation. I think one of the key points is that our loft hasn't been insulated before.

This is what it looks like at the minute (sorry, it's pretty disgusting). Do you think it's been insulated? DH thinks it has been but years ago. I'm wondering if that's just the filler that normally goes in the loft.

I'm hoping it hasn't been otherwise we won't qualify for it to be done through British Gas.

Can you tell that I am clueless?

[LMGTFY]

It's not a close enough view of what is between the boards to tell, it's certainly not insulted to standards even if that is a small smattering of old insulation down. It's usually like a dirty yellow, itchy candy floss if that helps identify it?

[ragged]

I don't know of any insulation that degrades to stuff that looks like that, close up picture would be better.

[LMGTFY]

Insulated that should say!

[Koalafications]

Thank you! I'm sending DH up now to take another picture.

[Koalafications]

Here's a closer pic...

[bilbodog]

That looks definately like some form of insulation. It's possible that it is no where near as much as would be recommended today so they will probably put more on top.

[Koalafications]

Oh no. We don't qualify if the loft has been insulated previously.

Will have to buy some and do it ourselves.

[Koalafications]

DH thinks he's found an old tank with asbestos... Oh joy. Does anyone knw if we can remove it ourselves or if we have to pay someone to do it?

[LMGTFY]

Definitely insulation, however there's nothing to stop you removing it.

If the tank isn't doing anything and isn't in the way then I believe you can just leave it, asbestos isn't harmful unless it's disturbed or in bad condition, it's inhaling the fibres that are dangerous. I think you have to get someone licensed to remove it though.

[PigletJohn]

"DH thinks he's found an old tank with asbestos"

What colour is it?

It is probably Asbestos-cement which is not hazardous if you don't interfere with it, and your local council will have facilities for disposal (see website).

However it is probably to big to wrap in plastic and carry out of the loft hatch, and you should not cut or break it up.

The insulation you show looks like blown mineral fibre (not rolls) or possibly shredded paper pulp. You can insulate over the top of old insulation, it might not be very dusty. I think the free schemes may cover you if you have 100mm or less of old insulation.

If you have to do it yourself, look for rolls treated with Ecose. The fibre is brown not yellow and does not shed irritant fibres or dust. It is made by Knauf but also sold as various own-brands in the shed. The word "Ecose" will be on the wrapper. I would not use anything else as yellow fibres irritate my breathing. It will be reduced to half price or less as soon as the warm weather comes.

When you have the recommended 250mm of insulation it will be approximately impossible to walk or store anything in your loft. There are DIY or paid alternatives, it is labour-intensive so not free or subsidised.

[Koalafications]

Thanks LMGTFY and PigletJohn

This is the asbestos tank...

If Britsh Gas won't insulate the loft, we will do it ourselves.

Thanks for the recommendations. Is this one ok? or is this the one you mean?

I'm really nervous about having the tank in the loft. (Probably because I hear asbestos and think death, cancer) will it really be ok? Would we insulate around it?

[PigletJohn]

I meant the stuff in the rolls. The slabs are for building into cavity walls. Measure the space between your roof timbers, the rolls are often perforated like loo roll so you can tear or cut them to fit the gap. It will compress slightly for a tight fit. Also measure the depth of the timbers. The first layer should be the same thickness so it is flush with the tops.

If you felt like it, you could clean out the old insulation into black sacks and take to the tip (wear dust masks) and clean up the loft with a canister vac.

You will have to empty all your valuables out of the loft anyway.

Asbestos cement is not very dangerous and will not release dust or fibres unless you interfere with it. You can wrap it in thick polythene if you want.

You can probably find a list of local approved asbestos removers on your council's website. Don't let any rough builder break it up to take away. I expect they will have a huge minimum charge, but will be familiar with asbestos-cement tanks. After cleaning out, and before insulating, would be best.

[Fairylea]

British gas have told me this week that they will insulate even if there has been insulation before as it needs to be a certain thickness and if it is under that thickness then they will do it (we have a survey booked for may).

They were able to look our energy details up on the screen remotely and see that our insulation at the time of the last survey was very thin so accordingly to that we are eligible. (We don't use British gas for energy or anything either).

[Koalafications]

Thanks for the guidance re: asbestos PigletJohn very much appreciated

I will be staying away from the loft and any insulating work as I'm severely asthmatic and 6m pregnant!

The loft is full of crap from the previous owners there isn't any of our stuff up there, so will be easy enough to clear for insulation.

Will consider wrapping it, I don't think I could afford to get it removed and I just need to stop panicking about it!

That's good to know Fairylea I thought they wouldn't do it if it had been insulated before, hopefully they will still do it. Would save us time and money!

[ragged]

I'm still not sure if this is morally right, but...

I piled our existing insulation up in the corners to a height of 25 mm, leaving loads of empty space. I was thinking that a smaller area to insulate would cost us less, and easier to calculate what we needed. When the surveyors came they said the majority of the loft was now uninsulated so they could treat it the job as a virgin insulation (now qualified for maximum grant).

DH put boards over Celotex insulation in the central area we still wanted to access (be able to walk on).

[PigletJohn]

boards over foam slabs is I think very satisfactory. You do need to insulate between the joists, under the slabs but with a small airgap, and I think mineral fibre is best for that, as you can squash it to a tight fit.

There are still instructions on the Knauf Space Boards website, though they seem to be discontinuing the product in the UK, Kingspan and Celotex off similar, though usually not in such convenient sizes.

www.space-insulation.com/products/space-board-eco/

www.space-insulation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Space_Board-Installation.pdf

www.space-insulation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Space_Board-Product_Datasheet.pdf

www.space-insulation.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/Space-Board-Leaflet.pdf

The insulating "power" of the foam slabs is about twice that of the same thicknesss of mineral wool.

Obviously you can't expect to walk on the foam, you need chipboard or ply on top.

[ragged]

Maybe I misunderstand Piglet.

You're not supposed to squash any of the soft insulation materials, far as I know, only the compressed board is suitable in narrow spaces and even that you don't squish, at least we were told. DH has fits if I put even an empty card box box on our fluffy insulation, he insists it squishes down & interferes with insulation properties.

[PigletJohn]

I don't mean squash down

I mean if the gap between the joists in nominally 500mm, but varies between 450 and 550, the fibre will squash tightly between the 450 bits, and you can cut a strip off to fill the gap in the 550 bits.

The thickness (100mm or whatever) is not squashed.