8 year old DD hygiene/behaviour

[DontOpenDeadInside]

Dd2 is 8 (9 in June). She's always been difficult, had counseling sessions at school for over a year due to low self esteem/anxiety. But she is just so stubborn. She refuses to brush her teeth, has now not brushed them for 3/4 days (I've lost count). Other than to pin her down there's no way to make her. I tell her what will happen to her teeth if she doesn't look after them, she doesn't care. I tell her she's not allowed sweet things if she's not brushing them... Doesn't care.

I find it hard to punish her when she is naughty. I cannot send her to her room as she shares with dd3. She doesn't care about toys etc. The only thing she is bothered about is the pc and the Roblox game. But if i ban her from it, she just follows me around saying "i bored" "there's nothing to do" etc driving me crazy. I suggest things but she says no to everything.
She won't brush her hair most days so goes to school looking a right mess (which isn't good for her self esteem)
I'm just lost on what to do. She's not interested in spending time with me. I offer to play board games etc but she says no, and the few times we do it ends up with her crying because she's not winning. When i tell her off for stuff she cries and says "no-one loves me etc" "you like dd3 better than me"
Just tonight i told her to do her teeth, she said no so i said well no sweets or pc tomorrow and she swore at me! We are a non swearing house so that's pretty bad. So now she's not allowed on the pc for a week, so I've got 1 week of her moaning she's bored. She would refuse to do chores (again i can't physically force her) just nothing seems to get through to her.

I make her sound awful, but she's such a loving, intelligent girl when she's​ not in one of her moods, which are getting more and more often.

[ImperialBlether]

Are you able to get her to the dentist's or to a hairdresser's? Would she take advice from them?

[Sunshineandlaughter]

At 8 you need to enforce teeth and hair brushing and not expect her to do it herself. Just force her.
Also st 8 she shouldn't be regularly on a computer - let her have use once or twice a week only.
Enroll her in activity classes rather than get counselling - counselling at 8?!!
You need to work on your issues about why you find it hard to discipline her - that's your issue not hers.

[DontOpenDeadInside]

The last time we went to the dentist he said she had nice clean teeth! No idea how. She's had a few fillings in the past. She hates going to the dentist though, i have to practically force her.

She also had her lovely long hair cut short by choice so there wasn't as much to brush (but still doesn't brush it)

[Sunshineandlaughter]

Ps you come across as awful rather than her - you need to be a mum and stop letting her have so much control - she's a child and not ready

[DontOpenDeadInside]

It's not that i find it hard to discipline her, it's that there's nothing to discipline her with.

The counseling is part of the Place2Be scheme, a bit like CAHMS. There's a whole bunch of other stuff I've not gone into, but the GP agreed she needed some counseling.
Activity classes-she has no interest in anything. She started swimming lessons but gave up after 1 term (has since learnt with the school though) plus i have limited funds.
We did do a forest walk the other day which she enjoyed but it was quite a long drive, she won't come to the local walks.

[OhtoblazeswithElvira]

A few fillings at 8 does not tally with having nice clean teeth!

Do you think she is jealous of the younger sister? What is the age gap?

I think you need to find some activity for her - something that she enjoys and is good at, and she can get better at, so she spends more time feeling good about herself, and she can get positive feedback from people around her.

[witchofzog]

Don't be so rude "Sunshine*. Op does not sound awful. She sounds like a mother asking for help at the end of her tether.

Op I don't know what to suggest. She is certainly pushing the boundaries. Is your other dd age 3 or is she your 3rd? Do you think she feels pushed out by her sister?

[Rinkydinkypink]

You ban the PC till further notice. You stop all treats etc and every thing must be earned back through good behaviour.

Your her mother! You are the adult. You tell her how it is and it's final. You cope with the behaviour thrown at you by her and you put boundaries in place.

If you can't deal with now she's going to be horrific as a teenager and you'll be letting her down.

[DontOpenDeadInside]

So you would pin her down, force her mouth open and brush her teeth forcibly? I did that once and she sobbed her little heart out (me too) There's no way i could do that again.

[Wolfiefan]

Stupid idea alert! Does she have sensory issues? Just you mention hair and teeth brushing. Is it uncomfortable?
Try and avoid giving a long ban for one transgression as that leaves you nowhere to go.

[Sunshineandlaughter]

I'm not being rude - the op has no awareness at all that the issue might have stemmed from her and that her actions could be affecting her dd. Her dd is 8 not 18.

[therootoftheroot]

You actually CAN force her to brush her hair and teeth. You do it for her. It almost sounds like you've given up on her.
At 8 you are the boss not her.

[Sunshineandlaughter]

Yes pin her down and force her if you have to.
Or use one of the many other tactics patents do to make children do things they don't want to do - you need to be a bit stricter and make it non negotiable

[DontOpenDeadInside]

Dd1 is 13 and Dd3 is 7 (there's 21 months between them). There is some jealousy, it came out in the counseling.
She is not sporty in any way. Hates running, football etc. Doesn't like to get dirty or bugs. She is quite crafty and i encourage that as much as possible. I don't think there's groups for that though?

[OhtoblazeswithElvira]

Is there another adult in the house? What we used to do with DD (would sometimes refuse to brush her teeth as toddler) is the "Doctor grip" : one adult sits child on their lap, one arm over the child's waist and the other over the forehead. The other adult brushes the teeth.

I think that if you are firm and adopt the attitude that tooth brushing is part for everyday life and that it just has to be done, children eventually cave.

[LexieLulu]

I'd pin her down and force her, then tomorrow morning say "how are we going to play this? Like last night or are you going to do it yourself".

There is also no way I would send my daughter to school with unbrushed hair, that you can do. Might cause a wobbler, but you can be doing the other child and say "now your turn"... no favouritism.

Sounds like you're letting her get away with whatever she wants

[Wolfiefan]

Doesn't like to get dirty? Sensory again?!
Ban for a very short time. If she follows you round saying I'm bored then ban for a bit longer.
Do school have any concerns about her wider behaviour?

[HeyRoly]

It does sound like you've given up on her and I think she knows it. This is probably her way of testing you. She sounds desperate for a bit of love and attention instead of (what sounds like) mainly negative interactions with you. She wants you to show that you care that she isn't taking care of herself.

Have a look at love bombing. I think she's crying out for some back to basics mothering.

[DontOpenDeadInside]

I've not given up on her or i wouldn't be here looking for advice.
If i hurt her while "forcing" her, you'd be ok with that? Cos last time she banged her head and her teeth bled a bit. Also with her anxiety i really don't think that's the best route to go down. Aren't we meant to teach kids no-one should touch you if you don't want them too?

[DontOpenDeadInside]

I've thought about 'love bombing' but unsure how it works when you've got more than one? Dd3, i think, would be jealous (she's started to copy and say "you hate me" now)

[DontOpenDeadInside]

No concerns about her behaviour at school. She's got lots of friends.
I've thought sensory issues, but the counselor never mentioned it coming up.

[Lowdoorinthewal1]

I would read 'Motivation and Reinforcement' by Robert Schramm. Not because I am suggesting she is autistic, but because it will teach you how to work with her natural motivations to get her to do the things she really must do (like teeth cleaning).

You can't say 'well she just won't'. You have to find a way to get it done.

[HeyRoly]

I've thought about 'love bombing' but unsure how it works when you've got more than one? Dd3, i think, would be jealous (she's started to copy and say "you hate me" now)

Is there never an opportunity to spend time with DD2 alone?

Also, is there a grain of truth that DD3 gets an easier ride of things? I mean, it sounds like you feel unable to reach out to DD2 for fear of upsetting DD3, although it sounds as if DD2 really needs to be your priority right now.

[Wolfiefan]

I wouldn't force it. It's not like she's having a toddler tantrum. Can she articulate what she doesn't like? My DD wouldn't let me near her with a brush as it hurt but would use a tangle tamer brush for instance.

[GruffaloPants]

Counsellor wouldn't necessarily know about sensory issues.

Could it be a control thing - this might come up in counselling?

Don't hold her down and force her. It will just feed anxiety. I'd get advice from the counsellor and find ways to reduce the negative focus on teeth and hair e.g. disposable chewable toothbrushes, clipping hair up, using a tangle teezer at night as part of massage/pampering. Maybe do pamper parties for all your girls with optional face masks, hair masks, nails etc

Can someone else be with your other girls for special time/love bombing. They should all get a shot.