feel terrible that i wish dd could move out at 16

[silvercloud]

feel very sad that dd is so rude and nasty at home.she never apologises and tbh I feel as if i've had enough.She talks about moving out so she can do everything she wants and I usually feel hurt but now,as her attitude is even worse I wonder if it would be the best thing as I've had enough of it all.
If she doesn't get her own way she swears at me and is really horrible,blaming everything on me and horrendously rude to me in front of friends.
I remember being 15 and I do feel she's choosing to behave like this simply because she can,to make life difficult for us and just for the hell of it really.
I've got no intention of asking her to leave atm but just almost need to get it out how fed up with it all I am and how powerless to change and how these days noone ever says its horrendous behaviour on her part,it must be the parents fault.
She wants to be as difficult as possible while having the moral high ground by virtue of her age and its very soul destroying.
I am really disappointed by the way she conducts herself and behaves towards us.
I'm a fairly quiet person and was a well behaved teenager ,never swear etc and just hate having to listen to f**ing and blinding directed at us.
Please flame me if you will,tell me you've been there or give me hope and strength as I feel a gulf between us now that I keep trying to fill with outings etc but if this carries on I think our relationship will never really be the same again ~ I'll always love her and be her mum but our actual relationship is nearly ruined.
Does anyone have experience of teens moving out ~I don't think it would be wise as I want to keep her on the straight and narrow but just putting it down is helping with the frustration of it all.

[themoon66]

Aw poor you. It's late, but I couldnt let this go until the morning.

Yes, been there with DD myself. She DID move out at 17 - she moved in with her boyfriend who was 29 How I stopped DH going round and knocking seven bells out of boyfriend I'll never know. I had months and months of sleepless nights over her. DH nearly had a breakdown. This boyfriend was a total waster.. sacked from every job he had for stealing, had run away from his previous GF and baby to avoid paying maintenance... you name it. DD thought he was wonderful and we were vile for wanting her to stay at home with us.

Sorry... this is droning on a bit but it's all coming back to me

Anyway... happy endings are what you need to hear. DD realised in less than a year that it was bloody hard work away from mum and dad. She had red bills to pay. She had to work 2 jobs as well as go to uni. She had to play second fiddle to boyfriend's mates and his beer.

She is now 22 and loves her mum and dad totally and tells us so every day. She has even been heard giving younger girls lectures about how silly they are to fall out with parents and move out of home. She tells them how tough it is out there.

What you need to keep in your mind is all the years you've had her and the good work you've done over those years. It wasn't for nothing. You WILL get payback. You WILL get your daughter back.
Good luck.

[silvercloud]

Thankyou themoon66,I didn't know what response to expect but thats brought a tear to my eye!

When she was little she was always my biggest fan.I never dreamed this would happen.

Did you ever get so fed up with her attitude you didn't actually like her very much?

[themoon66]

What makes it worse is the fact that you were a well behaved teenager. I was too. I used to wonder where the hell her vile temper came from.

She never used the F word though, even at her worst. It was all the door slamming and histronics that upset me. That and all the 'you want to trap me here coz you hate me' crap that she came out with. She even hit me once.

Yes, there were times I really didn't like my daughter at all.

[3littlefrogs]

If i were you I would call her bluff. Sit down and say "yes, that is a good plan, I can see you need your independance. Now how can I help you achieve it? Lets look at flats/jobs/etc."

A friend of ds had a major falling out with his mum - I am talking serious threats etc. He went off the rails when his dad left. The dad installed him in a flat (lucky he had one I know, we aren't all that lucky) at the age of 16. He is now almost 18 and has done really well. All his friends, including ds, stuck by him and supported him.

I don't know if it is feasable for you, but if you start looking into it, her attitude might improve.

Is there a relative she could stay with?

[silvercloud]

Its a difficult one as there are no nearby relatives and I think she is carrying on at school.
Presumably if she moved out we would have to pay her rent and keep as she is going to be at school,which is a waste as we have quite a big house.
Its the personal attacks on me I find most difficult,and talking about me to friends and one of their mums as if I'm some horrible person!
If you challenge her ,which I don't atm , for example to do somw revision,she gets really worked up straight away saying "why would I want to revise here,I hate youall "and then would go out to nearby friend,where I know she is safe but she most definitely has all the control.
Last night I asked her to clear her dishes from the table for which I got a tirade of abuse of what a bch I am and didn't do it anyway~for the first time,I left it out in the kitchen.

She appears to hate me and blame everything on me,whereas for my part I am at a loss to understand why this is ok and can't change her behaviour.
I overheard her say to her friend who wassleeping over on sat night "My mum reads my e mails" her friend said "really?" and she said "Yeah!"
I have never read an e mail of hers in my life and she must have been referring to a conversation about me saying I read that some parents do keep an eye on facebook/bebo etc .She also goes ballistc if I speak to one of her friends mums to see where she is etc and calls me a control freak etc

Sorry am going on now ,worked up as her bye to me this amwas "You're a bih"

which is a horrid word I have never used and if my dh used it I would divorcehim I think!

[ZZZen]

This sounds horrible. I would be very sad too, especially as you say, when she was a sweet little girl who you got on great with. I don't know she has exams to sit so what can you do really?

I don't have first-hand advice to offer so not sure I'm the right person to give any advice to you. I am old enough to have a teenage dd but mine is really only 8.

I'm thinking some work abroard with a charity helping dc with truly difficult lives might be the way to turn her around. I remember reading a website once about a charity working with street dc in Russia (I think a NZ led one). That might be an eye opener. There is also an Irish charity which sends people to work in orphanages, singing with dc, teaching them a bit of English. Your dd is a bit young I know but I think the volunteers give a lot to those dc in desperate situations and possibly even get more out of it. Soemthing like that? Even for a shortish period of time?

So you say a bit of "yes" for a change to everything. I want to move out. - yes, I think it's a good idea.

I hate you all - yes, it seems that way to us too.

I'm sick of you telling me what to do. - yes, maybe you need to think for yourself and make your own choices for a bit.

Worth a try?

[ZZZen]

Here's the Irish one:
www.torussiawithlove.ie

Just to give you an idea

[ZZZen]

British couple working with street children in Perm in Russia:
www.lovesbridge.com

[ZZZen]

Don't know if those kind of things are realistic for you or if your dd would feel motivated to help other dc and be likely to do well there, just an idea.

[3littlefrogs]

I agree with ZZZen. When she attacks, don't rise to it, just say "sorry you feel that way".

Have you talked to the school?

I also think that the more you try to control them the more they pull away. If you could find away to let her move out as ZZZen suggests, she would have a positive direction for her energies. At the moment it is all directed at you, in a negative way.

Ds dropped out of school. He had to work to get money as refused to give him any. He eventually realised that he needed to go back to college.

Everything worked out in the end.

[silvercloud]

thanks ZZZen they look very interesting.

She has always been of good character and I know she has that still deep down.
The trouble is she can't handle her emotions calmly anymore,and whereas she was always homey she now has turned against us.
I am guilty of getting cross [last winter]and shouty at her in exasperation at complete lack of cooperation and maybe the conflict between us has engendered bad feeing on both sides.
I am very patient with her now but she has decided she is unhappy at home and some of her new friends have emotional problems and/or have been in care and she sees herself as the same,which I think is ridiculous as there is nothing seriously wrong at home apart from her berating us all and wanting to be in completely in charge.

I think I feel very disappointed and let down and accused of being a bad mother.
Although I care about her deep down,at present I feel she is doing this all deliberately,because she can,because she doesn't care what we think or feel and I don't see why I should have to put up with it.

I can't sit down and do a list of boundaries etc,shes not interested and if I took her phone she would just scream her way down to her friends and tell her and her mum we are being horrible.

I'm a very loyal person and I don't think I will ever forgive her.

This is not helped by her dad tending to be a bit too damning about her to her face while although I am saying this on here,I try to be controlled in front of her.

I wonder if conflict between dh and me has caused this last summer ~ he's not the easiest person to get along with and I have considered separating lately.He has a tendency to say things in front of the children.

[mamadiva]

Hi Silver,

I was in your DD's shoes when I was 14-16YO, I was basically plain nasty to my mum and dad blamed them for everything even though nothing had actually happened .

I went off the rails at school and at home for no reason. When my mum tried to reach out to help me I would snap and lash out at her physically and verbally.

The last straw for her came on Boxing day 2002 when I was 16. I had been expelled from school in the October and was drinking a lot with older friends and she tried to sit down and talk to me and I decided I was going out with my friends when I got home 2 hours later she asked me what I had been doing and I physically attacked her

The next day she packed my things and kicked me out, I went to live with my boyfriend and his mum, my mum and I never spoke for 3 weeks.

In the end I went back up and we spoke since I had moved out and did'nt have money for drink I had to sort that out, I eventually came away from my older friends and was happy with my boyfriend.

After all the trouble I realised what I had to do, I went and got myself onto a training scheme and into college and 9 months later I had graduated with my SVQ in Playwork and had a steady job that I loved!

6 years on from that myself and my partner are still together and we have a 3YO DS, my mum and I can talk about anything now and we are more like best friends than mum and daughter! After everything we went through we eventually managed to make it through the other side and came out better than ever but it did take time!

I don't know were I would be sitting or if I'd have drank myself to death by now, if my mum had'nt of kicked me out I would not be te person I am today and we would not be talking!

Sorry for wittering, but just to help you see that it can help to be harsh it will take time, tears and tantrums but in the end it was worth it in my case anyway!

[silvercloud]

sorry was dithering over my post so x posted!

3littlefrogs,how old was ds when he movedout?

Dd is 15,16 in july.
Do SS have to be involved re moving out at that age?
Also how would it be paid for while she was in the sixth form next year?

I take your point about control,both her and me want to be in charge of things and I seem to find this breaking away very hard.

I am great with small children and older teenagers but find this age or behaviour excruciating.

[silvercloud]

mamadiva what a brilliant story thankyou!
How lovely that you have that relationship with your mum now!

People do say "ride the storm" which is what I try to do but then I have days like yesterday when I didn't feel well and I get fed up with it on a day to day level and at the unfairness of it all!

I get on very well with my ds,18 ,he is very caring and considerate but he was also a bit difficult at 15.

I can't believe you are all kind enough to help,I'm really touched,thankyou

[3littlefrogs]

It wasn't my ds, it was his friend, who moved out, but he was 16. He is now 18 and is working. He had a few behavioural problems, but is fine now. He is actually here in my house at the moment (just for a visit) - I always made him welcome here, and told his mum I would be here for him. They have all come through it, but it has taken a couple of years.

[3littlefrogs]

If she wants to move out, she may well have to look for a job...........does she want to stay at school?

I don't think SS need to be involved at 16, but i could be wrong.

Perhaps you should speak to the school?

[silvercloud]

Yes she wants to stay onin the 6th form.
She should get the GCSE grades but nowhere near the grades she used to get.
I could go back into the school but the teachers are usually very complimentary about her although they noticed a change in her earlier in the year when she was very down.When I went in a couple of months ago we talked about her being down about a health and friendship problem[not her fault].
Its nearly the end of the school yr now though and she is on study leave.

[silvercloud]

I guess weathering the storm is the way forward.
It has helped to get out my own feelings of disappointment and let down ~I can't say that to her really.

This will pass.

Most of the things he rants on about is just absolute rubbish I shouldn't take any of it to heart.

Most exasperating for her siblings as well is she is so nasty,then thinks she is in the right and having a hard time,its mind boggling.

I keep asking her not to swear in front of little dd ,7 but she doesn't care at all.

[mamadiva]

Sadly I do think it's all part and parcel of being a teenager, hormones are going wild and for some reason in my case anyway those you love and are closest too seem to be the ones who end up taking most of the flack for everything that's going on in their lives!

Yes you should ride it out Silver but don't let her think she is in control. My mum called in a social worker about 6 months after I went off rails and I found that hepful to be with someone else that did'nt know me, looking back I think I was genuinely mortified and ashamed of my own behaviour but I could'nt let those who knew me see that so I enjoyed being out with the social worker. Our area was quite rough so not all places may have it but ours had a scheme where the social workers would take all their kids out o a youth group say every 2nd saturday to do voluntary work in return for a day at the theme park or a day at the big swimming baths once every 6 weeks.

I don't know if they do that now but it was fantastic although my mum did say she has never been so embarassed than having to phone social services to say she could'nt cope withher own child

[Scrumplet]

Feeling for you, silvercloud. This sounds really tough.

I have no experience of this - DS is only nearly five. So feel free to ignore my ponderings!

Just a few thoughts from reading your posts ...

Resolve tension with your husband if you possibly can - it could well be having an effect.

Understandably, you want your DD to respect you, which she isn't doing at all. Be sure you are respecting yourself first and foremost: if you respect yourself, others are more likely to respect you too. Part of this means having boundaries - knowing what you will and simply will not put up with. I think, on the basis of how your daughter's treating you, you'd be quite justified in encouraging her to move out. You can calmly make arrangements, with her co-operation if she wants to be involved. And you can continue to calmly remind her that you are there for her and willing to listen, and she can be angry and sad and a host of strong emotions - but she can't take these all out on you so abusively. Say you'll help her handle these feelings and support her, but you have to care for yourself too, and this means not tolerating abuse from anyone. So she has the choice to communicate with you non-abusively, or to have some distance from you for a while. I think this is reasonable. You would never expect her to take this kind of treatment from someone at school - you'd encourage her to ignore/walk away. And you have that choice too.

My mum has been a bit of a doormat to my dad over the years, putting up with being treated less than equally or respectfully. I remember asking Mum in my teens to divorce my dad, the tension was so awful. She didn't. She just keeps putting up with it. And I have to say, I have less respect for her than I'd like. I think if you make a stand - give the message that this is enough and your DD simply cannot, and will not be allowed to, treat others like this - she is more likely, in time, to show your more respect. I think your endlessly putting up with it could possibly be making it worse.

I'm rambling! Hope this helps somehow. I do hope things improve for you soon.

[ZZZen]

It's so much at once, isn't it silvercloud. So very hard for you. There's your feelings towards dh atm, his behaviour towards your teenage dd, your teenage dd swearing in front of dd (7) and you wanting to protect the little one from exposure to all this and have a nice safe childhood too. There's you feeling sad that she is rejecting you, you are both disappointed that she seems to be throwing away good chances at the moment.

I don't know what is happening with dh atm but I expect it is all interrelated and has a lot to do with worries/stress with your teenage dd. Sounds like he's cracking under the stress/disappointment in his own way. Maybe without the problems with dd, he would be Mr. Nice Guy again you know.

You sound like a nice person and a lovely mum, I hope things can be turned around bit by bit until you feel happier in your home.

Do something for yourself that makes you feel better, soemthing that isn't dependent on the mood swings and behaviour of the other members of your family. Every person is equally valuable, not just dh or the kids, you are too.

[silvercloud]

Scrumplet thanks for a very insightful post
Funny you should mention the word doormat but it is true my dh is not very repectful towards me ~ he tends to make himself look good at my expense and makes jokes about me,my appearance someimes.

It is true I have hung on for the sake of family stability~first for my youngest and then because my dd was ill and I felt she couldn't cope with anything else ~this turned out to be true butlast summer dh and I argued and she was playingon that,siding with him to get her own way.Then I was annoyed as my dh had interfered and dd wouldn't listen to me[I was only concerned for her health] ~in fact that was the start of it all really.

Now its all a bit of a mess and despite my doing everything possible to care for my dd health wise and prevent this happening she has gone into freefall and feels its me who let her down.

She has actually told me she doesn't respect me now whether that is because she sees me as a doormat or because she has seen me shout/argue I don't know.

I don't know if I moved out who would live with me ~ surely DD would just play us off one against the other?

[silvercloud]

ZZZen also thankyou ,very kind.We had a trauma with dd being dreadfully ill[don't want to say too much cos of rl]and of course its affected us all very much.
In fact,reading your post has made me cry,its all so sad!
I am also worried the youngest may be affected by her behaviour[she keeps pinching and pushing me too]as he is now starting to be cheeky and a bit rude to me,having always been really good.

[silvercloud]

ZZen very true its so much at once I hardly know where to begin to make it all right.

[silvercloud]

And the little one keeps crying ~had alittle tantrum yesterday ~unheard of for her