nursery worried about DS due to EXp attitude and treatment

[ridingjoker]

nursery parent evening.

told me they have been doing emotion dolls in particular recently to bring DS and of his shell.

any of the upsetting emotions sad,angry,worried...... every single one of these he keeps saying he feels like that "when daddy shouts at me" or "when daddy gets me into trouble"

and he's wetting himself during a particular thing they do. and i can identify its to do with what happens when doing same activity at his dads.

and he's developing an over critical view in himself. and being very hard on himself sometimes.

i know the staff very well. and they felt the need to have a word with me. they said they are certain these issues all come from a parent being very strict, restricting play and giving him a very hard time when he fails to do simple things like wets himself or eats dinner too slowly.

and they had identified it was his dad from the emotion dolls

luckily they say all the happy emotion he named me. and when asked why i made him happy he simply responded "coz she's my mum"

and they say whenever in same room as dd he's a million times better.

so..... tried to speak to ex and he simply says that this is the way he is.. and thats how he expects his children to act/be treated

wtf can i do to try and get him to ease up on the lad. he's such a sensitive wee soul.

[Jojay]

Would nursery have a word with your ex? He may take it better from professionals.

[gigglinggoblin]

Tbh I am not sure telling you is the best way of dealing with this, all it is likely to do is cause even more friction. I would tell them that x has been unresponsive to you and that there is nothing more you can do. Suspected abuse is a serious matter and they shouldnt just tell you and feel their job is done. If you tell social services or make a legal move then it will be taken much less seriously than if they do something, partly because you could be seen as the bitter ex and partly because it is hearsay evidence, you havent done the work with him and seen it happening, they have. I would put the matter back in their hands, ask what their procedures are and make sure they do something. Keep on at them if you must, they are legally obliged to act in the best intersts of the child.

[ridingjoker]

well.. i knew he wouldn't take anything i say with a serious attitude.

just sees me as having another dig, no matter how calmly i broach him about it.

nursery said they would be happy to talk to him as i told them it may be difficult.

when i suggested this to ex he point blank refuses. he doesn't even know where nursery is tbh, he keeps it that way as then he doesn't have to collect them or take them as he can excuse himself for not knowing where it is.

i really do need to do something to make him understand he cant be as harsh on the boy..... but i cant refuse access.

my hands are very much tied with ex and financial situation. until next sept. but he could do alot of damage in just over a yr to ds .

dont really want to involve social workers. i get on with my HV quite well... but i dont think its possible to get her to come to visit. and ex most certainly wouldn't visit them.

[gigglinggoblin]

Tell him you will let nursey know what he has said and you will leave it in their hands. They have got to do something about this, it is so much easier for you if you do not have to be involved and more likely to make a difference. You can then truthfully tell x it is not your fault if social services knock on his door.

Is there a particular reason you dont want ss involved?

[ridingjoker]

even telling him that i've told nursery to deal with it will make it become all my fault in the eyes of exp.

and if ss get involved or there is anything that makes him look bad then i will get the blame.

i cant rock the boat with him too much until september. as i say my hands are tied in regards to financial matters with him till then.

there has to be a way of getting someone to help without it being turned into my fault.

[ellagrace]

if you really are concerned then i think ggoblin is right - keep putting the onus on the nursery. if they have a cause for concern they have not dealt with it by telling you when you are telling them you have no influence with the 'ex'. i guess make it very clear that the situation between you two is unproductive and therefore you can do nothing therefore reporting concerns to you does not address them or their duty of care for your son and ask them directly what their child protection policy is and what procedures they follow in these circumstances.

you've then used a few keywords that should alert them and made clear to them that you see this as their responsibility under child protection and their duty of care which may highlight for them their need to at least be seen to do something. i'd also make sure you are speaking to nursery manager, ie someone who documents, has responsibility for things, rather than on the floor staff who may just take it as a 'chat'.

hard though as it sounds like you may have some reasons for wanting to avoid tension with ex.

[ellagrace]

sorry but i don't see a way you can proactively get something done about this yet appear totally uninvolved. if you're concerned and want something done then the boat will be rocked

[ellagrace]

the only thing i can suggest is that if you really don't feel like you can upset things at the moment make sure, and get reassurance from nursery manager, that this has been fully documented and recorded by them so that if you need to refer to it at a later stage it's there in black and white.

[gigglinggoblin]

Ask him what he wants you to say to nursery then. He cannot expect you to say nothing, they will be asking. Then all the paperwork will reflect that it was nothing to do with you. Just because you know ss will get involved doesnt mean it is your fault. It is his fault and his alone, he can blame who he likes but its his problem. You dont have a choice, now it has been highlighted something has to happen. You either become part of the abuse by covering for him or you tell the truth and keep your children safe.

[theyoungvisiter]

can you give them X's phone number and suggest they call him to discuss? He may find it very hard to put the phone down on a "concerned professional" and if he does, it will at least be something to add to their file - eg that they sought to raise the issue with him and he refused to co-operate.

[ridingjoker]

but lets say i do get nursery to report it?

what is going to be the outcome?

what will it involve for both myself and ex? will we all be subject to ss being involved?

is it really going to benefit anyone?

exp treatment is harsh... but i dont think its enough to deny his to see his father. his access is already minimal.

and truth is exp wouldn't meet with ss either. or listen to anything they say.

i think i already know there's not really much i can do about this situ.

[gigglinggoblin]

If nursry were willing to document that my child was being abused and then do nothing about it I would be looking for another nursery.

[ellagrace]

i don't know that they are saying it's abuse though are they? seems they're saying that a parent is potentially being a bit too strict on a sensitive child and this is having some impact on the child. not sure that a nursery or ss would define that as abuse that requires definitive action

[theyoungvisiter]

or perhaps ask nursery to write down their concerns and post him a letter? That might also have the benefit of being harder to ignore/shout his way through.

[ellagrace]

i think what we as single parents forget when getting outraged and upset, understandably, by ex's not being the parents they should be is that their are kids actually living full time with drug addicts, prostitutes etc with ss, nurseries, schools etc full knowledge and little or no support. therefore how realistic is it to think they're going to take massive action, expense to deal with poor parenting from ex's during access

[gigglinggoblin]

So its ok to abuse your child as long as there are other kids worse off?

[ellagrace]

on the other side of what you definitely can do give your son tonnes of praise for what he does well, lots of love and support and a total counter medicine for what he gets from dad. keep this up for all of his life and expose him to lots of positive people and experiences and hopefully he'll be able to grow up putting his father and his attitude, treatment of him and way of being into context and see it as who is dad is rather than being about him. how you are with your son is what you can have power over and i think we have to believe that if we do a good enough job we can help them see through all sorts of things.

[ellagrace]

is it abuse? you're jumping with that straight off and does that really help child or mother to jump to that assumption when even the nursery haven't. if we called every child who didn't have perfect parenting or a perfect match between their temperament and both of their parents temperaments abused we'd be screwed and hysterical.

[ridingjoker]

gobblin - it hasn't been reported as abuse.

nursery hasn't made official documentation, just pointed it out and says they are keeping an eye as the wetting himself has only started in past month. they do have in his profile things about appraisals and general things in his character and wetting has been noted, this is how they notice the pattern to specific activities.

ellagrace - ex is gambling addict, amonst other worse traits.there is occasions where i see him unfit to look after dc during his scheduled access and i have just brought them back home.

theyoungvisitor - i like the idea of letter. unfortunately ex is italian. his reading skills for english are ok, but truthfully he wouldn't understand it fully.

but ellagrace is right. the nursery are highlighting they see some things that need work or could become a problem.

[ellagrace]

I hope it is blatantly clear that i am not saying that abuse is ok.

My comment about children living in those situations was not saying that was acceptable or that those in less serious situations are ok. It was a comment on the realities of the limitations of what in reality SS intervenes in and having realistic expectations of what the authorities actually do and what they define as abuse versus what we as loving mothers see it as.

It is terribly sad that your ex is not synching with your child and his needs and that he is not a more sensitive loving man. I don't know what you can do about that - i'm guessing you couldn't get through to him when you were together so doubtless the chances are slimmer apart. I don't believe there is a magic benevolent authority who can swoop in and make him be a perfect parent or who will banish him for being too strict and not kind enough unless he is beating or neglecting your son however and giving that impression would be false.

I do believe that you in your parenting can counter the negativity coming from the father and from what the nursery says your son feels loved and supported by you and you can build on that and stay strong in that knowledge. I said what i thought about getting the nursery to take action but it seems for whatever reason you really don't want action to be taken, if that's what you do then the positive parenting, preparation before access and support and love after access is the best you can do.

Not sure how that turned into me somehow being seen as in favour of child abuse. i'm not.

[theyoungvisiter]

Ridingjoker - I would hope that the nursery should be experienced in dealing with non-English speaking parents (mine definitely is) and would be able to phrase the letter in clear and simple language. Don't you think it's better than nothing at least?

All they really need to say is something like:

We are worried that your son seems unhappy.

He is showing a lot of distress about his relationship with you.

If you would like help to make your relationship more positive we can give you information about parenting classes.

Love,
Nursery manager.

Surely he could understand that?

[Janos]

rj, as you know, I'm in a similar position with my XP.

IME getting the nursery to have a word will not make much difference as he sounds very much like one of those arrogant 'my way is right' types (mine is same) and it will be very much in one ear and out the other. However, there may be value in passing on his number then at least you can say to tried 'faciitate contact' (apols for wanky management term there).

of course you have concerns but from what you say SS is not appropriate at the moment and probably heavy handed at this stage.

In terms of access being restricted...is its omething you would consider?

[gigglinggoblin]

but lets say i do get nursery to report it?

You dont get them to report it. You say you have told ex and he is not interested. Then ask them what they are going to do. This has to be them reporting it as they saw the behaviour.

what is going to be the outcome?

They will have a record in case things get worse and they can use that as evidence. They may decide its not enough to worry about and leave it at that. If they are concerned then most likely they will come round and have a word with him which will hopefully make him see the problem. What happens after that is up to him

what will it involve for both myself and ex? will we all be subject to ss being involved?

You shouldnt get in any trouble as long as you are not adding to the problem, they may have to speak to you but may not

is it really going to benefit anyone?

Ds. Does any one else matter?

exp treatment is harsh... but i dont think its enough to deny his to see his father. his access is already minimal.

Probably not

and truth is exp wouldn't meet with ss either. or listen to anything they say.

They would go to see him. And can then monitor him without you having to be involved. Not easy to avoid them if they want to see you.

i think i already know there's not really much i can do about this situ.

No there isnt. It is out of your hands. But if you try to cover for him then you become part of it.

I had a v bad split with my ex and ss have been involved. I have never been in trouble but I have noticed an improvement since school sent ss to see him. I have just written down what my experience has been, hopefully it will make you feel a bit better, obviously things will be treated differently according to each situation but this sounds similar to mine. They dont come storming in and take the kids away. Chances are they will just have a chat. Have a google for 'Every Child Matters' to see what nursery is obliged to do. And then just be there for ds.

[ridingjoker]

acess is already minimal. he sees them 7pm sat night after i've fed and bathed them. and i usually go collect them before lunchtime on sunday.

he gets them longer or sometimes watches them for a couple of hrs through the day other days if i need to go appointments.

i think ellagrace perhaps has only solution. positive parenting to counteract ex behaviour.

and janos - i do think ss is heavy handed at the moment.

as for the letter. ex doesn't even open most of his mail tbh. it lies for days and months before he opens. and even then he hardly reads. he just send them off to relevant people to sort.accountant.solicitor,etc.