Ok its early but exH has asked the Christmas question.

[skramble]

He wants to do year about, I am thinking over my dead body.

Asked DS, lightly what he thought, I didn't weight the question. he said at home, meaning with me.

exH is adiment they have two homes, DS calls this home and daddy's house somewhere he stays, its cool, His words.

ExH wants all 4 of us to discuss it togehter, I never wanted to put the children in the position of having to choose, they are 9 and 12. It seems so wrong.

I think the main reason that exH wants them on Christmas day is that he works 27th and christmas day is so much easier for him, I just can't imagine christmas eve and christmas morning wihout them.

[FluffyBunnyGoneBad]

If they live with you full time it would be unfair on them to allow them to spend the day with him. I'd say no but tell him he's free to come and see them on christmas day. If you have a good relationship then offer him the opportunity to spend the day with you all, if not, you have them christmas day, he has them boxing day so they have two christmas day's.

[Spero]

If you were in court, the usual order is year about. I don't see why it is 'unfair' on the children to let them have a christmas day with their dad. Seems fairest solution if you don't live together and don't want to spend the day together.

Or they go to him on the afternoon?

Not sure discussing it with them is a good idea, unless you can both display considerable emotional intelligence.

[daisydancer]

How difficult. Unless you and your EXH made life total hell for your children by being together, their probable honest answer would be that they would like a family Christmas with all of you together in a life where you had never split up.

Although terribly difficult, you have to make a decision that will make your children feel as little guilt as possible about the other parent being without them on Christmas Day. It may be that the 'year about' idea would help your children to deal with the knowledge that Daddy will feel sad without them on Christmas Day this year but that he could look forward to next year when they would be with him, or vice versa.

I think you're right that the children shouldn't be made to choose because they would feel responsible for the sadness of the parent who wasn't to spend Christmas with them.

I really sympathise but try to put your own feelings aside. Anything you and your EXH can do to prevent the little ones worrying about your feelings at Christmas would be the most generous gift you could give them.

[stealthsquiggle]

My friend has never ever backed down about Christmas morning - Christmas Eve, or Boxing Day, maybe even Christmas afternoon, but her DS (6) is adamant, like Skramble's, that Christmas morning should be spent at home.

[skramble]

See thats why I wanted to make the decision, and not sit them down and put them on the spot. I sort of asked DS casualy what he thought about Christmas, no mention of sad parents as I think that would be terrible.

I still think this is their home, they stay at his very occasionally and he is the one that chose to leave.

I think un pressured DS will still say Christmas day here, but could be easily swayed if exH says anything about wanting it to be fair etc.

Last year PIL took them up on boxing day but he was working on the 27th so I said I wanted them for the day rahter than the OW looking after them, so I picked them up from his work when he arrived and he got them from me as soon as he finished work, not far from his work. s he still had all the time with them that he would have, but boy was he pissed at having to get them up and me collecting them.

I can see why he wants them as he will be working boxing day or the 27th again this year so Christmas day itself suits him better. I don't want the arrangments for our kids dictated to by his work schedule.

[Spero]

At 6, I'm not surprised that her DS is so behind his mother's views. What choice does he have at that age?

As parents, who love your children, your job is to do what is right for them. Not what makes you feel better.

And generally, what is right for them, is being allowed to have a good relationship with the parent they don't live with.

If you really can't share christmas, what else can't you share? and what impact is this having on your children?

[stealthsquiggle]

Spero - he has a lot of choice. His father left when he was tiny, he has spent every other weekend with him for as long as he can remember, he loves his dad, but it is not home. It has been made clear to him for some time that access is for him, and should be based on what he wants. What he wants is to spend Christmas morning at home - and he loves that Father Christmas makes a special trip to fill his stocking at his Dad's house on another night .

[skramble]

I am trying to do what is right for my children and I don't think splitting their lives in half is the way to do it. I think best for them is Christmas at home like they have always had.

[Spero]

It's not about splitting their lives in half. It's about letting them share special times with both parents.

I really don't get why it would be a problem every other year.

and I think you have to be very cautious about saying that children agree with you... if they are little they won't be able to have any other views but yours. And you don't want them to grow up resenting that.

[daisydancer]

9 and 12 year old children who feel loved by both parents are absolutely mature enough to suspect that the parent who is without his or her children on Christmas Day will feel sadness. It certainly wouldn't take an adult to introduce this concept.

Children have a temendous sense of respect for what is just and fair. If they feel that the Christmas arrangement is fair and the time shared equally, they will have the freedom to concentrate on dealing with thier own feelings. They shouldn't have to feel the slightest twinge of anxiety in five years' time that their mother or father has missed out on the simple pleasure of a family Christmas morning, every Christmas morning for five years. The children have the right to experience this special time of year with each parent.

[krumble]

well my 12 yr old certainly wants to have christmas day at HOME, and would love a special time with his daddy at that time of year but daddy goes to work and drops them off early so they only had 2 evenings and two mornings instead of 3 full days and 2 nights as was originaly arrnaged until he said he would be working and OW would have them all day.

[daisydancer]

Sickening as it feels, OW is part of your children's family, in the same way as the wonderful new partner you will find one day will be. You need to support your children in developing a positive relationship with her and one day EXH should do the same in relation to your new DP.

Your children will admire and love you SO much for giving them support in embracing a new, wider 'blended' family. One day they will fully understand the strength and love this has taken from you. What a wonderful, selfless Mother you will have been.

[krumble]

Sorry but I can be wonderful without patting OW on the back for being a bitch to me reporting me at work for something I didn't say then sleeping with my exH when he was still my husband, sorry but it smarts a bit to imagine my DD and DS all cosied up on Christmas morning while I sit on my own.

Oh wouldn't it be fecking wonderful, why don't we all have Christmas day togehter , any way back to reality.

[krumble]

Oh and my children do love and admire me and I do not talk negitivly about her or him to them, much though I would love to.

[Spero]

I agree with daisydancer. My ex has now met someone else and it makes me absolutely sick to my stomach at the moment to think that he will probably quite soon be wanting to spend time with OW and our daughter.

But I've just got to try and suck it up because anything else will hurt my daughter.

[Spero]

krumble, even though you don't talk negatively, there is no way your children are not picking up on your attitude.

I'm not saying that to criticise, believe me I know how much it hurts 'smarts' doesn't even begin to cover it, but the only people you are hurting by feeling this way are yourself and possibly the children.

don't think of it as them being 'cosy' and you 'on your own'. Try and change your perspective if you can otherwise it's going to continue to feel absolutely shit.

[krumble]

I don't want to be a selfless mother I want my children.

I am not hurting my children.

And exH did not leave me then convenently meet another woman. she is the kind of woman that sleeps with married men and treats people like shit at work and try to lose them their jobs.

[Spero]

If you resent your ex and his partner, your children will most likely pick up on it and that will hurt them - i am assuming they still love their dad.

your ex may be a shit but he is still the only dad they will ever have.

I'm going to go thru exactly this at christmas, for the first time, but I can make a decision - am I going to have christmas alone and bitter or I am going to try and get through it without dwelling and feeling resentment?

Either way it's a crap situation, so why make it worse for yourself?

[krumble]

Of course I resent them, and kids are not daft they know I don't love him any more and how much he hurt me, but I will stick to my guns, I am NOT hurting them by being a normal human being and actually having feelings.

Well done to you for being so selfless, but I can't do that. They are my world and with me for 99% of the time, he sees them once a week and expects me to hand them over for the good times while I deal with all the rest, no way!

[mamas12]

I can put an alternative slant on this as my ex never 'did' xmas. It was always me who was the enthusiastic one about it all, I love it and all the things that go with it and so do my dcs.
My ex on the other hand is scrooges mentor when it comes to any occasion. (controlling emotional abuser)
In the two xmases we have been apart the dcs have stayed at my house and I have invited ex over, even including his mother and sister in the invitation. They have been the best xmases we have had in a very long time because he had to 'behave' in my house on my terms, what a relief.
He still didn't bother putting any decorations up and upset the dcs that I ended up getting him new decs as he had thrown the ones I left for him, even the ones the dcs had made each which I carefully divided fairly!
I do have a sneaky suspicion though that he will book somewhere to go this xmas - don't know why and I really don't know what I'd do.

[mamas12]

I agree with you Krumble do what you need to do for your dcs sake he can do xmas when he can fit it in, really, the dcs will have two.

[daisydancer]

No one would ever expect you to see anything positive about this woman at all, she sounds terrible. The fact is that you are all stuck with her at the moment and need to make the best of it, as I said, unfortunately she is part of your children's family.

You clearly adore your children and of course you want to be with them. I think a selfless mother is one who puts their children's needs before their own, always. You talk with such passion about them that I can't believe that you would really want to put your own anger and need for revenge before their emotional well being.

You and your children's carers and family know them best. Between you you'll make the right decision, maybe that is for you to spend every Christmas with them, only you know that. I think that you should make the decision without anger. Think only of the children. It might mean some CHristmasses without them which may have you in tears but at least they will grow up knowing you did what was best for them and not what most satisfied your, most justified anger.

[slowreadingprogress]

agree with daisy and spero

krumble, your understandable anger IS going to be hurting your children because of course they sense it. IMO they have underlying confusion and anxiety about that. Of course it doesn't show; but ask ANY adult you meet whose parents split with alot of anger and a bad situation whether it affected them negatively...the effects don't show in childhood often but they will be happening unless you CAN put your own feelings aside on issues like this.

Of course you're angry at what happened to you. TBH this is why divorce has devastating effects on children. If it was easy to be happy and fine, everyone would do it and children wouldn't get in the middle of anger and resentment. It's practically impossible for a hurt woman to jolly along with the ex and the other woman but to be brutally frank if you don't, your kids WILL be hurt, ARE being hurt.

IMVHO.

[krumble]

That is a big part of it, when we were together I bought all the presents, and helped santa, he did nothing.

The first year I got him to come and stay over Chritmas eve and it broke my heart there I was doing all the santa stuff and he did nothing no different to any other year.

Christmas has always been special for us and if I though he would put in the effort and this wasn't all to suit his work schedule I would think about it.

They can still have Christmas with him but let me do Santa and all that like I have been for the past 12 years

[krumble]

I am not hurting my children, they sometimes see me upset, very rarely. they know how passionate I am about them, but they are not being hurt, they know how much I love them and that some things do upset mummy, they know it is not their fault they are not babies they are inteligent children who are nurtutred and cared for. they know I get upset because I care for them so much. and yes they know I don't like OW that much and they don't expect me to. FWIW my DS has more emotional inteligence than his father.

I am not angry anyway, I am well over him and past being angry, she is a bitch and always will be to me, not something I see any point in getting over as that is what she is to me, happy for her to have him as they both have someone they deserve.

But by god I am deeply pasionate about my children and my job as ther mother.

I really don't want to put them on the spot in front of their dad, asking them to make a decision, thats why I asked DS how he felt, not where do you want to go.