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Mumsnet hasn't checked the qualifications of anyone posting here. If you have medical concerns, please seek medical attention.

Mental health

DS has threatened to kill, I'm furious with hospital

53 replies

Feckitall · 01/02/2017 18:52

I'm here for a vent more than anything!
DS1 is 28 and has had health issues since mid teens. He doesn't live at home, he works and is studying for a degree. He has 3 DC by his ex whole other thread He contacted me to say he went to the hospital as he had thoughts of killing someone, not to worry he would ring me later. A bit later said he had given them my number as they wanted to speak to me. The doctor then rang me, we chatted for half an hour, he even asked if I thought he could do it and I said yes! they said they would have a multi disciplinary meeting and decide what action to take. The doc even said 'he is very articulate and as matter of fact' I was home within 10 mins, told DH what was happening, to get a message from DS to say they had released him! I went to pick him up, he said he can't remember anything from Sunday night until this morning.He was hearing voices this morning but was aware enough to know to get help. He is scared of himself and what he could do and worried as his bank account is empty and he doesn't know if he paid his bills!
They can't decide what is wrong with him, over last 3 years, bipolar, BPD, narcissistic personality disorder, adult ADHD have all been discussed. They did say he is Aspergers with high IQ.
In which world is it ok to let back out onto the streets someone who has delusions, disassociation and voices without support in place, they are booking 'talking therapy' for him, he will be put on a waiting list! ARRGGGGHHH
Where do we go from here...

OP posts:

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rperrina · 01/02/2017 20:51

Hello, I'm sorry to hear this, I can imagine this is very scary for both you and you husband but also your son. Could you get him sectioned for his own safety? He would get treatment that way and hopefully additional support.

Good luck I hope you find the help you require

gamerchick · 01/02/2017 21:00

It isn't ok, it's shit. They let him go because they now know he has a family member to take responsibility for him. Hence the phone call. It's a common stunt that took me ages to realise.

You can either make a pest of yourself with his mental health worker or ring the police and ask for advice. Just as a starting point. They may be able to point you in some sort of direction. (No idea if it'll work though.)

Feckitall · 01/02/2017 21:08

I'm totally out my depth with this

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AnxiousCarer · 01/02/2017 21:12

Its not that easy you can apply gor a section but only if a Dr is in agreement and he has already been assessed as not needing a section. I haf a similar situation with DH last year when we were on holiday. He thought he had a mission to kill certain people and threatened to kill me if I stood in his way. He was detained by police who got an emergency assessment and the next thing I knew I was being asked to go and collect him as the assessment had found no signs of psychosis. He will never admit to any symptoms as he is terrified of getting sectioned. He also has no insight when he is that poorly. We are lucky that he has a wonderful community team at home who immediately recognised how poorly he was though by the time I got him home he was no longer talking about killing people though. It scares me how bad things would have had to be before they would section him. I am in the process of complaining to the NHS trust in question as I feel my safety was put at risk by them.

gamerchick · 01/02/2017 21:17

I know :( I read threads like this one and all my feels want to squeeze the poster. i know the place you're in.

AnxiousCarer · 01/02/2017 21:19

Fektail feel free to PM me I'm no expert but have a few years of experience navigating the emergency MH system through trial and error with DH. Also I know what its like seeing someone you love so poorly.

RandomMess · 01/02/2017 21:20

Argh that is just utterly rubbish, any concerns about anyone being in danger (including himself) I would call the police and explain that you think he needs sectioning urgently.

He must be so scared as are you

AnxiousCarer · 01/02/2017 21:39

Are you his nearest relative? If he doesn't live with a partner you or his Dad will be, whoever is the eldest. As nearest relative you can request a psychiatric assessment and you can apply for a section to your local psych hospital management. There are example letters on the mind website.

If theres an imminent threat keep yourself safe and call 999 the police can help get an emergency assessment but thats no garuntee of him being admitted.

Feckitall · 01/02/2017 21:54

Thanks for your comments..his dad and are nearest relatives, he has younger siblings too..his ex and him were not married..I will take a look at the Mind website...the docs can't agree on what's wrong and whether it is mental illness or psychological issue..

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PotteringAlong · 01/02/2017 21:57

I'd call the police and tell them that he's talking about murdering someone and he's quite capable of doing it and ask them to act.

AnxiousCarer · 01/02/2017 22:25

DH is under a psychiatrist and an early Intervention in psychosis team. He doesn't have a specific diagnosis. The big difference with your DS is that when he hears voices he doesn't recognise them as voices he always insists they are real people talking. Its only be seeing him react to things that arnt there that you would know. Also when he was talking anout killing people he wouldn't have told anyone he thought might stop him. So he would not take himself to hospital. I generally have to get the police involved to get him to hospital. I wonder if it is your DS insight into things that is making them think he is not a threat.

AndNowItsSeven · 01/02/2017 22:29

If he had possible bpd your ds may not really be having delusions. The bpd could be causing his distress.

iveburntthetoast · 02/02/2017 11:26

Yes, in my experience someone who is showing insight and has someone to take responsibility will often mean they won't section someone. It's not right at all, but hospital beds are at such a premium that services end up only taking in the most poorly people. It's costing lives.

Feckitall · 02/02/2017 13:26

He didn't pay his rent...he is trying to get an overdraft...

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AnxiousCarer · 02/02/2017 14:42

Is he normally bad with money or is this new?

Catrina1234 · 02/02/2017 20:59

I'm really sorry OP but to be honest I'm not surprised. The NHS is on its knees as you've probably read but out of the NHS budget a miniscule amount is allocated to mental health. In the MH trust where I live in the last 6 months they have closed an entire dementia ward (patients just discharged) reduced beds on acute wards by 50% and closed a day centre.

It sounds like your son hasn't got a reliable diagnosis. Could you go with him to the GP and make a list of all the problems and the things that have been suggested. GPs don't know a great deal about mental health and can only really diagnose depression and anxiety, so ask for a referral to a consultant psychiatrist for a diagnosis and treatment. Unfortunately some of the conditions you mention aren't really treatable, ADHD, Aspergers, BPD (usually now called emotionally unstable personality disorder) but there is a therapy Dialectical Behaviour Therapy that seems to be successful in treating this condition.

What do you think - mental health problems (especially psychosis) start in late teens/early 20s, but you must be very confused. Can I ask why you think he is capable of killing someone - has he shown that he is capable of such violence in the past. Would it be better if he stayed with you for a while as it sounds like he needs support at the moment.

Feckitall · 02/02/2017 22:27

Thank you folks...I will try to answer questions.
He couldnt get a loan so I'm covering it..not easy but just about doable. He is with us tonight.He can stay with us as long as needed but it is crowded, His brother and his wife live here too. We have made sure he has eaten. He isn't great with money but usually gets the vital things paid. He has asked me to take over his finances so that at least his bills get paid in the future if he has a episode. He can't remember what happened this time and had no awareness until it was too late..
Do I think he is capable of doing serious damage/killing...yes I honestly do, He is 6ft 2'' strong and volatile. He has flipped before over the most innocuous things, like being asked to turn down noise....He has a brooding presence..IYSWIM..

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alltouchedout · 02/02/2017 22:37

If he's been discharged and nothing has changed then he's unlikely to be found sectionable. You can always request as amhp visit as nearest relative but that doesn't mean one will happen or that if it does, any action will be taken.

Has he been referred for any community support other than the talking therapy? Does he have a cpn, care co ordinator, etc? It doesn't sound like it. Other than await the therapy, has he been given any other advice or appointments?

Feckitall · 02/02/2017 22:37

Just to add to my woes DH is to be reassessed for PIP from DLA..He can barely walk, has had cancer and is in chronic pain...and had depression for years..

We heard today they are visiting ...to reassess...

I want to crawl into a hole and not come out...

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Feckitall · 02/02/2017 22:39

He is being booked an appt with CPN ..in 6 weeks.. ...they gave him crisis number..but last time he rang them they didnt answer!

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RipeningApples · 03/02/2017 06:28

MH services are bizarre. Last summer dd went to a&e after a self harming dose of 10 antihistamine 26 hours earlier to get herself out physically. They wanted to admit her overnight with a 1:1 MH nurse for assessment the next morning. Threatened the police and everything if we left. Assessment said low risk and she could have counselling in three months. Money for all that and three assessments but none for any preventative support. When CAMHS originally closed her case we appointed a consultant psychiatrist. £4k down but ADHD, ADD variant diagnosed and the root of problems.

But I'm not dropping it. Very formal complaint on-going.

You need to put your concerns in writing OP very politely but note you will hold the MH Trust responsible for your son's deterioration or actions. Also, do write to your MP.

TresDesolee · 03/02/2017 06:45

Second what Ripening and others have said. You need to make a big, public fuss with a paper trail. Write to the CEO of the mental health trust (should be able to find contact details online) and your MP with a detailed timeline. Say your DS has made threats of extreme violence and that sadly you believe he is capable of carrying through. Ring the police and say the same thing.

As others have said, MH services are way past breaking point and they'll do anything not to fill up another bed (hell, they almost certainly don't have a spare bed). But that's not your problem.

Put it on the record to the people with decision-making power and make it clear you'll hold them to account publicly if anything goes wrong. Sadly the squeaky wheels get the most oil in this situation. Been there with something similar myself (and the person I was trying to protect did end up being very violent to members of the public and his own family)

Trust your instincts. Make a hell of a fuss. Look after yourself - ring the MIND helpline or similar to offload. And be prepared for your DS to be very angry with you if he realises what you've done (sorry, but that's another horrible piece of the jigsaw you need to be aware of).

It's an awful situation OP.

Feckitall · 03/02/2017 07:25

He has asked me to help him...we had a short chat yesterday about it..I said I will discuss anything with him before acting..but he is happy for me to rattle some cages..as he said now he thinks he can control it as he is aware now ..for now he is scared of what he could do when he has an episode when he is not in control ..he told the team at the hospital repeatedly that he isn't safe..they still let him out..

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TresDesolee · 03/02/2017 08:04

Poor you feckit and poor him. Hope there's someone looking after both of you. Glad you're ready to rattle 💥

AnxiousCarer · 03/02/2017 18:08

It sounds like the immediate crisis has passed, but he definately needs some proffesional support inplace to help avert future crises. Hopefully once he gets a CPN in place that will make a big difference. Definately complain though, at the least it gives the MH services evidence to help them get more funding and improve services for the future.

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