Challenge rejected

[StealthPolarBear]

What now?

[MysteryTripAgain]

Depends on what happens in the House of Lords about the no deal bill

[bellinisurge]

Overtaken by events. According to Emily Thornberry this morning (I don't like her, btw), Labour is not planning to agree to an election yet in the Monday vote.
Letting Johnson stew in his own wank juice for now.

[StealthPolarBear]

But this allows him (or gets closer) to proroguing parliament, right? So he doesn't need a GE. It'll soon be too late anyway

[MysteryTripAgain]

Parliament will be prorogued starting 10 September as Gina Miller's challenge has failed today.

[NoBaggyPants]

I like Thornberry. She's a bit shouty but we'd never criticise a man for that, and she is superbly intelligent.

The opposition parties are not giving him an election because the law gives the PM the power to set the date. Given that he and Gove have said they may ignore the current no deal bill, it's too much of a risk to give him that power, it's playing into his hands. Plus an election should be contested on all the issues that impact us, not just this one. So now it's up to Johnson whether he wants to ask for an extension (which he claims will not happen, he'd rather die in a ditch), ignore the new bill (which will become law very soon), or actually try and negotiate with the EU. Or he could offer a People's Vote.

[NoBaggyPants]

It'll soon be too late anyway

It's not too late. If the "no no deal" law is passed on Monday (which looks very likely), then if he chooses to ignore it there will be another legal challenge, which is far more likely to be successful because the law has been written with exactly this scenario in mind. This can all be going on whilst parliament is not sitting.

[MysteryTripAgain]

@BaggyPants

If the no deal bill is passed by HoL, does it oblige the EU to agree to another extension?

Thought EU had said they will only agree to extend of there was a valid reason such as a GE or a referendum?

If neither of those take place how does the EU justify an extension?

[StealthPolarBear]

Thank you baggy pants that's helped to clear up some of my confusion

[NoBaggyPants]

Peston explains it better than me.

www.itv.com/news/2019-09-05/will-boris-johnson-goad-mps-to-impeach-him-by-refusing-to-ask-eu-for-brexit-delay/

[NoBaggyPants]

If the no deal bill is passed by HoL, does it oblige the EU to agree to another extension?

No. But they want to avoid a no deal scenario as much as we do, and they have indicated that they would be open to an extension. Even Macron, who was initially against the previous extension, has said this. I guess they want us to have a GE so they can deal with someone that actually wants to speak to them!

[NoCauseRebel]

I dislike Johnson intensely but that comment about rather dying in a ditch was an off-the cuff comment which the media have blown up into something dramatic.

It’s long been common knowledge that Johnson wants no deal and was going to stop at nothing to get it.

Labour have shot themselves in the foot and sent the country to hell with their abstaining from a GE. Because now a no deal Brexit is almost a certainty, whereas before there was a chance that it could still be stopped and an extension sought or even for article 50 to be revoked.

[Notonthestairs]

Nothing Johnson says is accidental.

No deal has to be ruled out (with the law enacted) before an election can be held - that is the whole point of Labour, LD's and SNP manoeuvres.

The "hell" is all of the Conservative party's doings.

[MysteryTripAgain]

I guess they want us to have a GE so they can deal with someone that actually wants to speak to them

A GE favours a coalition of Brexit Party and Conservatives based on constituencies. Remember that 406 constituencies voted leave in 2016. That is a huge majority that would allow Johnson and Farage to get anything through. Even the no deal bill that has been passed to HoL could be overturned.

Maybe it is Johnson's hope that only a GE will result in EU extending. If they do not extend UK is out of EU without a deal regardless of any law that has been passed by UK. Johnson then falls off his chair as he can blame the EU. Something that has been high on his agenda I think?

That parliament are trying to block a GE suggests they are afraid of a GE.

Impeachment was last used in 1806. If the impeachment law is still considered valid then Tony Blair should be tried for War crimes over Iraq.

[Notonthestairs]

What we need now is Yellowhammer reports published.

[time4chocolate]

No. But they want to avoid a no deal scenario as much as we do.......

So MPs are going to take our best negotiating tool away - you couldn’t even begin to make this political nonsense (💩) up. Crazy times.

[bellinisurge]

How is " I want to throw myself out the window " the best negotiating tool?

[MysteryTripAgain]

What we need now is Yellowhammer reports published

They have already been seen

So MPs are going to take our best negotiating tool away - you couldn’t even begin to make this political nonsense (💩) up. Crazy times

I agree. Taking no deal off the table is an open cheque book for the EU. They can demand whatever they wish in the knowledge that UK law prevents the negotiators, appointed by the UK, are not permitted to say no.

[twofingerstoEverything]

If threatening no deal is 'our best negotiating tool', there's really no hope for us.

[Notonthestairs]

We should not be considering no deal. That's the point.

Not the "revised" up to date yellowhammer reports.

[mrsglowglow]

How likely is it that the no deal Brexit bill will be passed by the House of Lords? Is it likely that there will be members partaking in filibustering (not sure on that spelling!)? What if it is not passed before Parliament is suspended?

[MysteryTripAgain]

How is " I want to throw myself out the window " the best negotiating tool?

That is where the difference of opinion lies. Some think no deal is bad and some think it is good. Just like the 2016 referendum. Some people think the UK is better of leaving the EU and some think UK will be worse off.

[MysteryTripAgain]

@twofingerstoEverything
@mrsglowglow
@Notonthestairs

No deal threatens the EU single market and customs revenue if there is a open border in Ireland. Michel Barnier has said many times that EU's priority is to protect the Single Market and its Customs revenue. Likewise Taoiseach Leo Varadkar has said that no deal will result in border checks.

EU could give some relaxation on the Ireland border, but would have to the same on the Eastern European borders. NI could become a smugglers paradise if there was an open border to Ireland. Many goods that are banned in EU could find their way into any EU member once they have entered Ireland.

So no deal is not only an issue for the UK, but also for the EU.

[MrPan]

No deal best negotiating tool?? Are you kidding?

We threaten to shoot ourselves. EU has no interest in us shooting ourselves but the have a wider interest in the welfare of the rest of the EU and say "well, we really don't wish for you to shoot yourselves but we are not in a position to stop you."

Negotiations are not based in threatening yourself. FFS.

[jasjas1973]

So MPs are going to take our best negotiating tool away - you couldn’t even begin to make this political nonsense (💩) up

Did you read what the UK is putting forward in Brussels? on Ireland scrap the backstop, have a Canada style FTA but with no "level playing field" agreements on worker and environmental protection....great news!!! :(

You do not need to be a genius to work out that is completely unacceptable to the EU and ROI (and it should be to us too!) BJ has zero intention of reaching any sort of agreement with the EU, it is all bluff & bluster, as reportedly said by Cummings in august, so nothing is being taken away!

What's equally incredible is that leavers are swallowing it up.

[MysteryTripAgain]

@MrPan

No deal is not only an issue for the UK, but also for the EU due to their border laws