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Education

Are state schools allowed to profit from extracurricular trips/holidays?

88 replies

origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:03

DD (along with rest of year) has been invited on a European skiing trip during the Easter holidays. Places are limited and there will be a ballot if too many apply. The trip is being supplied by a third-party provider who arranges everything - accommodation, coach travel, ski passes, tuition, insurance, etc.

I went to the provider's website last night (to see if they were registered with childcare vouchers, as we have a glut to use up) and came across the schools' brochure and price list. The provider charges the school £540 per pupil, and the school are charging £1020. The £540 includes free staff places, and in fact there are further discounts for volume (not sure if this applies as I dont know how many kids are going). The 'what is included' is identical, copied and pasted from the provider's website (down to the free souvineer t-shirt) so I know it is the same holiday.

Are the school allowed to profit like this? I know they can't for normal school trips, but I don't know if the rules are different for what is clearly an opt-in 'holiday'.

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lljkk · 05/12/2019 20:05

What would profit mean? Whose pocket do you think the money went into?

Since it IS a holiday I wouldn't find it morally objectionable at all for any excess the money to go to school funds. Did you put in the exact same dates & total group size to get those prices?

Pipandmum · 05/12/2019 20:09

Why don't you ask the school? That sounds alot for a ski trip - my kids are at a private school and it's not nearly that much for a weeks ski trip.

rookiemere · 05/12/2019 20:10

That's very strange and yes I'd be disgusted if it turns out the school are making a profit from this.

SubordinateThatClause · 05/12/2019 20:12

Have they included teachers' salaries for the time they're away? They're on duty 24hrs a day when away.

Tatty101 · 05/12/2019 20:16

Are travel costs included? I.e. planes etc?

origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:18

To answer questions:

I think the profit would go into school funds. I don't object to that per se, if it was transparent. But I am also aware that some families who can't afford £1020, might be able to afford £540, so I'm also uncomfortable with it for that reason.

It's definitely same dates, and the £540 is for the minimum group size of 30, so there are further discounts if the school brings more children (I don't know how many places there are).

I have emailed the school. No reply to date.

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poseysbobblehat · 05/12/2019 20:19

Costs include cover for teacher's lessons if in school time, insurance, coach to airport etc. Schools do not profit, that's utter nonsense

origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:21

Good point about teacher's salaries. I hadn't thought of that. Even so, £15k (assuming minimum 30 kids going each paying an extra £500) seems a lot...

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OxanaVorontsova · 05/12/2019 20:24

I run trips regularly and we have to factor in contingency funds, cover, staff subsistence, first aid, insurance etc but it never doubles the cost of the trip!

origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:26

Per my OP, insurance is included in the provider's cost to the school, as is coach travel.

Can any one point me to any legislation that says whether they can do this (given it's a holiday, not a usual school trip)?

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poseysbobblehat · 05/12/2019 20:27

Are they flying ?

bettyboo40 · 05/12/2019 20:29

Supply cover per teacher could be £180 a day. On our recent trip a coach to the airport ( about an hour away) was £700. Plus contingencies. Staff won't get an increased salary for the 24 hours they are on duty, but some schools ensure all food/drink for the staff is covered throughout the trip. Plus insurance, extra activities booked etc. The price you see online would not be the final price for the school.

origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:29

It's in the Easter holidays, so while they would need to pay the teachers attending, there would presumably be no cover costs.

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origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:30

No, not flying, going by coach (arranged by provider, included in price).

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BackforGood · 05/12/2019 20:33

£540 doesn't seem anywhere near enough for a ski trip in the school holidays though. IYSWIM - obviously it is a lot of money, BUT, for a week's ski trip, incl travel ?
Are you 100% sure everything is included?

I know a small group of Scout Leaders who organise a big ski trip each year and they can't get the price down to anywhere near that amount even though they work incredibly hard to get the best value for everything and negotiate discounts for "bulk bookings" etc. That is with all adults being volunteers, and paying their own way. £1000ish seems much more realistic.

origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:34

The £540 price is the full price, as per my OP it includes everything mentioned - all activities, all insurance, all coach travel, souvineer t-shirt, gratuities to ski instructors etc. It is all-inclusive and the letter is a direct copy and paste from the provider website.

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OxanaVorontsova · 05/12/2019 20:38

It does seem a very low price for an all inclusive ski trip, what company is it?

poseysbobblehat · 05/12/2019 20:38

All inclusive during school holidays for that price ????!!

Dodgeitornot · 05/12/2019 20:40

£540 is very little for a skiing trip and it's priced that way as these companies know the large on costs schools have. I've never seen a private school charge less than 1k personally. Working in schools finance we often arrange the payments for these trips and you need roughly 1 adult per 8-10 children. These companies will only give a free space for 1 in 11 usually. If the school need more teachers than they need to cover than cost, on top of that all those teachers need cover for their lesson that week. Most trips will have a mix of teachers and support staff so the support staff will need overtime paid for going, teachers don't get paid overtime. From what you have said I don't imagine the school is making more than £50 per pupil and that often goes towards providing a reduced price for some children.

origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:41

Sorry BackforGood i changed some details (including the activity!) to avoid the need to name change as I've asked friends about this to in RL. But the prices remain the same.

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Dodgeitornot · 05/12/2019 20:44

Just as an example, interski offer a per pupil cost of roughly £400-500 per pupil in term time. They also offer non school coach trips for individuals who want to go on a skiing coach trip and have the exact same itenarary. The cost of these is roughly £900. Nothing different and if anything you get less as the evening activities aren't included. The school one is cheaper because if was bought in bulk and because interski is aware how much additional costs schools have with cover, additional insurances etc. Anyway I hope the school gets back to you but I imagine the answer will be this.

origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:45

Sorry everyone to distract about the skiing. It's not skiing, but a similar activity and is in the Easter hols. £540, all inclusive, including coach travel to the continent.

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Chattybum · 05/12/2019 20:45

The school's don't profit. If you don't like it find it cheaper and take your child yourself.

OxanaVorontsova · 05/12/2019 20:47

origamiwarrior · 05/12/2019 20:48

Thanks Dodgeitornot, that makes sense. More costs to the school involved than I had thought - especially regarding the ratios.

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