Everyone says my 8yo ds is a monster - what can I do?

[giveusaclue]

My 8 year old ds1 has 'behavioural issues'. He is rude, stomps around the house scowling at everyone, doesn't register what we ask him to do (eg get dressed, clean your teeth etc), is physically aggressive with his brother (5) and verbally agressive to him and his sister (2) and seems to take pleasure from his brother getting told off to name just a few of his 'issues'. When I try to talk to him about his behaviour he will often get upset and teary and says he is sorry but this doesn't seem to make any difference to his behaviour and he will be back in 'monster child' mode within minutes of the tears.

I know I am not helping because I am at my wits end with him. I lose my temper, threaten him with whatever punishment I can think of off the top of my head, shout at him etc. I also try reasoning with him, trying to talk about why he behaves like he does, how he feels when he is like this but he just says he doesn't know. Basically I'm hugely inconsistent and breaking every rule in the book but it is so wearing dealing with the constant bad behaviour!

Anyway, the current crisis is that a couple of weeks ago his nanny told me she thought he was 'horrid' and I have been thinking that maybe I should give up work and stay home as at least I love him and why should she when he is so constantly rude to her (she has looked after him since he was 2mths old so they do have a deep relationship) but have just discussed this with my dh who tells me he thinks ds1 is a 'horrid, nasty, vindictive little boy'.

So now I'm dispairing as it seems that everyone has written him off and I am the only one left in his corner and I know I have nothing left to try in this fight. Is his behaviour normal? Do I get him counselling? Do I get me parenting classes? And how can I turn this situation around if everyone is against him? God help him if he only has me to rely on!

[colditz]

If the nanny has looked after him for eight years, she has at least SOME hand in the way he has turned out. Ditto your husband.

You must be consistent, and make all his other carers abide by the same rules.

Sounds like your dh needs to spend some time doing something constructive with his son, instead of deciding he doesn't like him

Can you point out 3 things per hour and praise him (gently, don't go nuts or he will smell a rat )? Even if it's as simple as "Oh loves it when you do that with her, she thinks it's so funny!"

[cheeset]

Sounds like you are at your wits end. IMO, you and dh need to sit him down and discuss his behaviour with him. Set a few rules ie, no ps2/wii/ds whatever everytime he breaks a rule but a warning first.

You need to work together, sounds like ds1 is unhappy with himself. I too have a similar problem with my ds, he is very very trying. He has drained me and dh this christmas constantly arguing and we are going to do this sit down chat tomorrow although dh and ds know nothing about it yet!

[cheeset]

dh tries to do things with ds but it usually ends with both of them very agitated. DS cannot play any game without changing the rules and is a good winner(really braggs) or is a seriously bad loser.

Agree with positive reinforcement, always do this with ds. Then again, degenerate to silly name calling when he makes me cross no swearing but cannot help his already low self esteem.

Sorry to hijack thread.

[AngharadGoldenhand]

He sounds like a very unhappy little boy, and he is little, at 8.

Could it be that he is feeling a lot of pressure to be 'grown-up' and 'act his age' because his siblings are so much younger?

[giveusaclue]

I'll try the 3 things an hour tomorrow - I really need some positive 'how to' steps to latch on to now - I am so completely at my wits end with the whole situation that some sort of simple rule for me to follow is the only thing I feel capable of attempting! I agree that his Nanny has a big influence on his behaviour but, at the moment, I just feel that I am not handling things well and, if I am rubbish at it, how can I expect others to do more.

We do have rules - the gameboy is the first thing to go, followed by computer time and then TV but, to be honest, other than a bit of a huffing and puffing and stomping it has little impact. He just goes off and niggles at his brother until he causes a fight so it often causes more problems than it solves.

Last term I banned him from all after school clubs because he was rude to one of the club teachers and, even with the threat of this ban, he did it again the next week. I have followed through but, to be honest, I don't think it has made any difference. He doesn't seem bothered although I know he really enjoys his clubs.

I always give him a warning when I am about to take something away but he can literally break the rule within seconds of me giving the warning. I sometimes wonder if he some sort of loose wiring in his head that doesn't let him logic out the situation....

[giveusaclue]

I don't think he is under pressure to 'grow up' - at least I hope not. I do still see him as a little boy but I do expect him to look out for his sister and brother. Is that wrong to expect of an 8yo? All I am asking for is for him to be polite and to act like he likes his family.

[AngharadGoldenhand]

Maybe he is feeling a little pushed out by his brother and sister? Sometimes the wider family seems to only 'see' the youngest/younger ones.

If he feels he is the one who is always told off, naturally he will feel quite pleased when someone else is told off. I think that's human nature. You know - 'at least it's not me this time'.

Can you try expecting less from him (responsibility/maturity) and giving him more (attention/love/time)? Does he have special time with you or dh where you're just concentrating on him?
Do you still have fun with him, when he's allowed to be silly and just a kid?

Sorry, this is a bit of a ramble, but I think we expect a lot of our eldest kids, just because of their age and sometimes they just can't give us what we want.

[giveusaclue]

He does have some good 1on1 time with dh doing sports things but, tbh, I find it hard to do this myself as I find the things he is interested in (computers, gameboy, tv, warhammer) incomprehensible and boring. Should I work on my knoweldge of these things to give us common ground? Makes my heart sink even more but I am willing to try anything at this stage!

[Janni]

You want him to 'act like he likes his family', but his nanny and his father think he's horrible and he probably believes you feel the same. This is a serious situation and I feel very very sorry for you, trying to make it better and feeling alone in your efforts.

The punishments are not working and might be doing more harm than good. This little boy sound like he really needs to feel warmth and love. I don't mean letting him get away with things, far from it, but could you work out incentives rather than punishments? Maybe he really needs quality 1:1 time with a loving adult, rather than more gadgets or more time on the computer or whatever. Little boys all think that's what they need, but actually a good old-fashioned bedtime story, cuddled up with mum can work wonders.

See if you can be physically affectionate
with him and really try not to shout, but to be firm and calm. You and your DH really need to work together on how to help him, he sounds troubled. Make an appointment with his teacher to talk about your worries, too - the more the adults around him are working together the better. And if his nanny really feels that way about someone she's looked after since babyhood, it might be time for
her to move on??

[AngharadGoldenhand]

What about cooking?
Most kids like it and making your own biscuits/cakes means you just have to try one to see if they're ok. .

Maybe you can find a computer game that you both like or can play together. If not, what about learning just enough about what he likes so you can take an interest in it?

[AngharadGoldenhand]

Janni's idea of a bedtime story with a cuddle is a good one.
Get a long book, one he'll like and just read a chapter a night. Then you've got something else to talk about, look forward to and it's something special shared between the two of you.

[giveusaclue]

I'm really grateful for all your interest. And thank god someone else is awake! It's really helped to talk about this. I can't tell you how heartbroken I was to hear my dh saying such awful things about him. And I think the biggest thing I am realising from your comments is that he is an unhappy little boy - for whatever reason - and his behaviour is the manifestation of that.

I'll going to make a big effort tomorrow with all these suggestions and see how we get on.

[AngharadGoldenhand]

Glad we've helped. Let us know how you get on.

[Janni]

I have three DC, including two boys, 11 and nearly 8. I'm always taken aback by how much the boys need affection and love from mum, even though it seems they're only interested in their gadgets/computers etc. Think about that tomorrow. It's not too late to help your little boy, but you need to think differently about him. Act as if you really really love him - it will make a difference, I promise. Good luck xx

[emmaagain]

Can Irecommend Alfie Kohn's Unconditional Parenting? It might really help you to move beyond the rewards and punishments and help your child.

You all sound so unhappy (((hugs)))

[3littlefestivefrogs]

I am shocked at the nanny and your dh tbh. If they say those things about your ds you can bet your life that ds knows that they say/think these things. Children are very perceptive. He sounds very unhappy and insecure. Can he hear ok? Has his hearing been checked? I mention this as a very common cause of aggressive/difficult behaviour is due to hearing difficulties.

It sounds as if he only gets attention for bad behaviour, but he has enough insight to realise this. It sounds a horrible situation and I think you need to seek professional help via either the school or your GP, and you should be considering family therapy, not just therapy for your ds.

I would be concerned about the nanny - are you confident in her relationship with all your children. Do you agree on childcare issues? Do all the adults present a united, consistant front?

It is a difficult time of year when a chnge in routine can be very unsettling for children. Are your expectations of your ds's behaviour realistic for an 8 yearold? He is still very young.

[1066andallthat]

How about getting DS to draw up a list of ten things he really likes doing. Then, everyone (you, his Dad and the Nanny) doing at least one of those things with him, during the week. By getting him to provide you with the ideas, he might feel more in control and with a long enough list, there should be common ground.

Can he go shopping with one of you - just him and then, for a grown-up coffee? Small things but showing him that with responsibility comes privilege i.e. time alone with one carer and attention.

Bad attention is still attention and it is definitely the quickest way to focus a parent. Don't despair - you are facing the problem. Oh, a last thought - when is that second surge of hormones boys get? It's around 4 and ....? Could that be part of it?

[Othersideofthechannel]

I second Emmaagain, Unconditional Parenting might help you see things from a different angle. Certainly sounds like the punishments are making things worse in this case.

[juuule]

I agree with the 'Unconditional Parenting' recommendations. A much better way of working together with your child.

[FrannyandZooey]

I would recommend you try to get on one of the courses run by these people or if that is not possible, buy the coursebook and work through it yourself

[littleshebear]

Do not think you are alone in this. My ds2 can be like this and it is only with a lot of work and thought that things have got better. He needs firm boundaries and immediate consequences if he misbehaves, but more importantly he needs more attention and more affection than I was giving him, even though I thought he was getting enough of both!If you think hard about it, you will solve this, but very difficult to do it alone. Your ds is lucky to have you in his corner, and you will have to try to get his dad and nanny on board.

One immediate thing that really helps when he starts begin awful is to have a period of special time each day with him, that he chooses, and that is not taken away no matter how bad he's been.

[giveusaclue]

I had a much better day with DS today thanks to last night's suggestions from you all. Not to say he didn't behave in his usual way - I don't believe in miracles - but I behaved better and didn't lose patience with him once (although I felt like it several times) and it is amazing how that one thing made a difference. By staying calm and trying to defuse the situation without getting angry with him I know we avoided several scenes that would normally have erupted. Also, it seems that DS1 thinks DS2 is never told off and he thinks this is unfair and, from today, I can sort of see his point. Because DS2s naughtiness is not as extreme as DS1 he doesn't get told off as much as he probably should as DS1s behaviour is always the focus. I tried to be fairer today - not telling DS2 off to make DS1 feel better but not jumping on everything DS1 did and making sure DS2 was pulled up if he behaved badly and it seemed to have a positive effect on DS1 and his behaviour towards DS2 in particular.

I also took up the suggestion of doing 1on1 things with DS1 - I even made a warhammer figure with him - get me! and that definitely made a difference (thanks for that suggestion).

Will persevere with this approach and will try the Unconditional Parenting book suggested as well.

I am a bit worried about getting dh and the nanny on side. This situation has been growing for so long and we have tried and failed with so many approaches that I feel like I want to establish the 'right' way myself first before I tackle them. I know this is going to make things tougher in the short term but, if I can get some sort of breakthrough with DS1 using the suggestions you have all made, then I think I will be on stronger ground in getting the others on side. God that makes me sound weak and yes ours is quite a disfunctional family but the nanny and DH are quite strong minded individuals (ie they think they are always right) and I can't see them listening to me unless I can show proof of performance. But you are right in saying that DS1 must pick up on the bad vibes and i am sure that that contributes to the situation. I made a point of pointing out his good behaviour or traits today and you could see the postive impact it had on his frame of mind (thanks for that suggestion too!) I found it quite hard to begin with which made me realise how seldom I do it.

Re the Nanny and her 'suitability' she is an excellent nanny - one of the best i have come across - but her expertise is with younger children and I think she doesn't have any more idea how to cope with the situation than I do so I suppose there is an element of professional pride coming in to the equation - she doesn't want to be seen as anything other than excellent at her job and DS1 is blotting her otherwise Mary Poppinsesque record. Also, when someone is as offensive as DS1 can be at times, it probably takes a parent to still love them despite the abuse.

One more issue which we do get a lot of, even today, is rage. He flies off the handle at the slightest thing - even things that have no impact on him. For example DH took the DC swimming this morning and DS2 and DH had an argument because DS2 was insisting that he wouldn't wear armbands in the wave pool even though that is the rule. DS1 flew into a rage because of this even though it had no impact on DS1 at all. And when I say rage he screams, clenches his teeth, clenches his fists as if about to do battle. Has anyone else come across this behaviour? This doesn't seem normal to me even taking all the other issues into account. Any suggestions welcome!

Anyway - will keep trying tomorrow and see how we go. Thanks again for all the suggestions. I really appreciate the support

[TheLadyEvenstar]

AngharadGoldenhand, your post here made me sit and think about me, dp, ds1 and ds2. I am having "issues" with ds1 who is 9. pretty much the same as whats been mentioned by op but no pleasure over ds2 getting in trouble as he is only 13 weeks old and is not naughty yet lol.

Giveusaclue, you could be describing my ds1 he is 9. the teeth clenching, rages and yes they do get you down. I am also tired and not sure what to do next. I did take him to a child counsellor and to be honest it was a complete waste of time. I have found he is better when I spend time doing things with him which is a bit limited with a 13 week old ds as well. On the other hand ds1 can be an angel for example, I fell asleep on sofa this afternoon, ds2 was asleep in his car seat as we had been out. I fell asleep at 5.45pm and ds1 woke me up at 8pm to tell me he had fed ds2 but "could not work these reusable nappies out mummy". I don't ask him to do this he just loves to help WHEN he is not in one of his moods which he had been up until he had the chance to take charge of ds2???? I don't get it any ideas? Something else that helped was at 9pm I left dpp with ds2 and ds1 and I popped to the chicken shop. When we got back and had eaten ds1 went in the kitchen loaded the dishwasher and wiped the sides down, put ds2's bottles in sterilizer and then made me and dp a coffee...... I know this sounds a lot but I didn't ask him to do it and I did praise him for it, I like to see the good in him but sometimes with the rages it becomes difficult to do so.

[nannynick]

Rage at this age, I find is quite common - at least with children I have cared for (I'm a nanny).

Rage needs to be channelled, so that other people are not hurt. A special cushion for example (punch bag) can help as a way of releasing built up aggression and rage, in a controlled way. Far better a cushion as punch bag, then you, or DS2, or others.

Exercise is important, a way of releasing excess energy. Winter months can be hard, but try to get DS1 (plus DS2 and DD1 for that matter) outdoors for part of every day. Walk to and run around the local park, woodland etc.
Ideally aim for at least a 20 minute outdoor session, where the children can charge around like bulls.

[crayon]

Can you dig a bit deeper and find if there are some emotional issues? He may feel deep resentment about his siblings etc. Maybe you could be referred for counselling for him. Well done for fighting his corner tho'.