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To think you don’t “accidentally” strangle someone to death?

(260 Posts)
DrizzleandDamp Tue 27-Oct-20 14:00:03

I give up, no murder conviction for this man:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-8884251/Police-officer-41-not-guilty-murdering-wife.html

There is no point me pursuing my case when these are the decisions made!

OP’s posts: |
Goosefoot Tue 27-Oct-20 14:07:50

In the general case? Yes, it is possible to accidentally strangle someone to death.

In this case? It sounds like the jury is thinking there was no formed intent but even if that was true I think it's very close to the line.

yellowmaoampinball Tue 27-Oct-20 14:09:15

You can do pretty much anything you want to a woman and pretend it was an accident or she consented to it. Not shocked at all by this story. Just depressed.

Mumofsend Tue 27-Oct-20 14:09:41

He has literally got away with murder sad

My ex admitted assault by beating and threats to kill and got told off. There were dozens of other incidents that easily could be attempted murder and I got told it was tit for tat. It's almost like it's acceptable.

SpeccyLime Tue 27-Oct-20 14:10:17

What an evil bastard.

This paragraph really stood out to me:

Meanwhile it was also revealed today that Brehmer was known by his colleagues in the force as a 'sexual predator' who preyed on 'vulnerable' emergency workers.

If this was known by his colleagues in the force then why the hell was he allowed to continue serving?!

The whole thing is despicable.

EmmaGrundyForPM Tue 27-Oct-20 14:10:40

There is a good debate about this over on the Feminism Board.

Its appalling

Mumofsend Tue 27-Oct-20 14:11:24

Also I'm in the area that the same police force as this case serve!

Clandestiney Tue 27-Oct-20 14:12:22

Trigger warning, excerpt from his testimony

.


.

He described the incident as a 'kerfuffle', claiming he 'fell on top of her by accident more than anything' and his arms must have 'slipped up' around her neck while he was behind her in a 'piggy-back position'.

He sobbed as he told jurors: 'I'm responsible for her death. I must have [used too much force]. I absolutely did not want to kill her or cause serious bodily harm. I didn't intend to kill her.

Even these 2 statements he made contradict eachother, the first claims he 'slipped up' and seemingly wasn't aware his arms were around her neck, and the second seems to be him acknowledging he used too much force, which is interesting if you don't know you are doing something in the first place.

So sad.

RonObvious Tue 27-Oct-20 14:14:42

Was literally about to post the same thing. Couldn't believe this story when I read it - am desperately hoping that there is some kind of backstory, or extra evidence that we don't know about. Otherwise, it's just too horrendous.

JacobReesMogadishu Tue 27-Oct-20 14:17:20

I can accept that he didn’t meet her with the intention of murdering her. I doubt that he was just trying to drag her out the car. I think he flipped in the heat of the moment.....people generally don’t try to drag people out of cars with their hands round their neck.

I’m assuming that the post mortem evidence wasn’t conclusive in it’s proof of how long/how much pressure/how much intention would have been needed and in English law if it can’t be proved beyond reasonable doubt he’s acquitted.

Hopefully he still gets a lengthy sentence for manslaughter.

RIPworkingmums Tue 27-Oct-20 14:27:47

I’ve been following this case in the news. From what I’ve read, he did not meet her with the intention of killing her, therefore by definition it won’t be classed as murder sadly. Only those in court will have heard the full story (well, his side as hers can’t be heard any more can it).

Thepilotlightsgoneout Tue 27-Oct-20 14:31:06

The jury came to a verdict very quickly so I can only assume the actual evidence, as oppose to what the media report, was quite persuasive.

EmmaGrundyForPM Tue 27-Oct-20 14:36:31

RIPworkingmums

I’ve been following this case in the news. From what I’ve read, he did not meet her with the intention of killing her, therefore by definition it won’t be classed as murder sadly. Only those in court will have heard the full story (well, his side as hers can’t be heard any more can it).

You don't need to have prior intent/premeditation for it to be murder. You just need to have intent at the moment the event happens.

DrizzleandDamp Tue 27-Oct-20 14:42:48

She had broken bones in her neck, and he stabbed himself in the arm afterwards to try and blame her and call it self defence, which he later admitted.

No maybe he didn’t set off to kill her, but that isn’t a damn accident.

OP’s posts: |
Nailgirl Tue 27-Oct-20 14:52:24

SpeccyLime

What an evil bastard.

This paragraph really stood out to me:

Meanwhile it was also revealed today that Brehmer was known by his colleagues in the force as a 'sexual predator' who preyed on 'vulnerable' emergency workers.

If this was known by his colleagues in the force then why the hell was he allowed to continue serving?!

The whole thing is despicable.

He fractured her neck in 3 places. That is not accidental. She texted his wife, he admitted a "quickie" a couple of days before -11 year affair and that wasn't his only one. Her car -she was in it -why couldn't he have walked out of the car and away -no he lost his temper and killed her -how do you "piggy bag" someone in a car -poor woman must have been terrfied. She was still alive I think although not conscious when the ambulance got there.

grenlei Tue 27-Oct-20 14:55:18

People in 'respected' positions like police officers will often in this kind of situation get acquitted of murder, especially where they've done the mea culpa bit and pleaded guilty to manslaughter.

Being in the police he knew how to play this so he got the most favourable outcome.

That poor woman and her family.

ladybee28 Tue 27-Oct-20 14:55:39

@Goosefoot: In the general case? Yes, it is possible to accidentally strangle someone to death.

How?

grenlei Tue 27-Oct-20 14:58:29

Why was he allowed to continue serving? Because of the institutional nature of 'the force', notwithstanding improvements over the years it's still full of bullies, predators, and those with racist/ sexist/ homophobic views. Those who call it out tend to find their career prospects affected sad

Goosefoot Tue 27-Oct-20 14:58:37

DrizzleandDamp

She had broken bones in her neck, and he stabbed himself in the arm afterwards to try and blame her and call it self defence, which he later admitted.

No maybe he didn’t set off to kill her, but that isn’t a damn accident.

That doesn't tell a jury that he murdered her with intent though, only that he thought he would be blamed.

I would say that the poster above who said that the physical evidence didn't seem conclusive is probably right. That doesn't necessarily mean the jury thought he didn't, it means they thought the evidence wasn't conclusive.

It comes down to your title question - is it possible to accidentally strangle someone to death. Yes, it is, that's not really in dispute. So this guy, naturally, claims he didn't intend to kill her. The question becomes can he make a case that maybe he didn't. It only needs to be a maybe.

DrizzleandDamp Tue 27-Oct-20 15:00:13

ladybee28 every DBSM rape trial ever I would suspect!

OP’s posts: |
Goosefoot Tue 27-Oct-20 15:01:51

ladybee28

**@Goosefoot**: In the general case? Yes, it is possible to accidentally strangle someone to death.

How?

I'm not sure I really understand your question, accidental stranglings aren't at all unheard of, any more than accidentally killing someone in a fight is. Restraining someone by the throat or dragging them around by the neck is dangerous and unwise and aggressive but it isn't attempted murder.

People sometimes accidentally strangle themselves to death.

knittingaddict Tue 27-Oct-20 15:03:56

Goosefoot

In the general case? Yes, it is possible to accidentally strangle someone to death.

In this case? It sounds like the jury is thinking there was no formed intent but even if that was true I think it's very close to the line.

What expertise do you have to say that you can accidentally strangle someone? What circumstances are you imagining that aren't violent and aggressive with intent to harm.

Sorry to be so graphic, but it takes time to strangle someone. It takes minutes rather than seconds and a fair bit of strength and pressure. I don't believe this man for a moment.

The verdict is a disgrace.

dontdisturbmenow Tue 27-Oct-20 15:05:56

The jury came to a verdict very quickly so I can only assume the actual evidence, as oppose to what the media report, was quite persuasive
Don't be silly, MNers are much more apt to pass a rightful judgement based on media sensationalist reports than a jury with full details of evidence of the crime!

Olinguito Tue 27-Oct-20 15:09:02

Words fail me - so shocked and appalled by this verdict.

ladybee28 Tue 27-Oct-20 15:11:50

@Goosefoot Accidental self strangulation, maybe, but to strangle someone else to death takes several minutes of consistent pressure, usually well beyond the point of them falling unconscious.

It's not 'easy', despite how movies make it look.

That's why I ask –because there's got to be a pretty impressive level of intent to maintain that kind of pressure for long enough to cause brain death.

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