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Ridiculous to try and sue a university over a "mickey mouse" degree?

(260 Posts)
Creambun2 Sun 11-Mar-18 12:24:01

thetab.com/uk/2018/03/10/a-graduate-is-suing-her-university-for-60000-for-giving-her-a-mickey-mouse-degree-62377

Surely, it is down to individuals to research their university and course appropriately and understand that whatever degree or university you go to, getting the job you want will be mostly about you and your skills?

I agree universities pump out lots of propaganda about "employment prospects" but saying, for example, 90% of graduates employed within 6 months means nothing is 89% of those are not in graduate level jobs.

TheQueenOfWands Sun 11-Mar-18 12:26:56

Doesn't say what the degree even is.

Depends on the degree, surely?

Creambun2 Sun 11-Mar-18 12:28:21

It was "international business strategy"

ButteredScone Sun 11-Mar-18 12:28:28

Actually, I think this is an interesting case and definitely worthy of court time.

You or I couldn’t make bullshit marketing claims of our business - why should universities be able to?

Ultimately, legal time is expensive for institutions and this will hopefully help focus them on delivering for students, not just grant farming.

MyBrilliantDisguise Sun 11-Mar-18 12:29:59

She studied International Business Management at Anglia Ruskin university. Their entry requirements were:

96-112 UCAS Tariff points from a minimum of 2 A Levels (or equivalent).
3 GCSEs at grade C, or grade 4, or above, including English and Maths

TheQueenOfWands Sun 11-Mar-18 12:30:01

International Business Strategy does sound a bit vague and non-subgecty.

DaisyInTheChain Sun 11-Mar-18 12:31:50

I always thought the risk of going to Uni at 18 was you'll do a degree in something you like, not necessarily something that will land you with a super job.

I know of a few teenagers since the school till 18 was bought in, actually did first year in Sixth form, then went to college to do a more career focussed course.

She can't really blame them for her initial choice.

She has the option for graduate programmes. Which to me are like higher level apprenticeships.

A girl when I was working completed a degree, she admitted she hadn't at the time of applying thought what do I want to be. In my day careers support was pretty rubbish.

Creambun2 Sun 11-Mar-18 12:32:09

But even if a uni says 99 out 100 graduates from 2011/12 work in "magic circle" law firms, it does not mean you will (made up example!) and a court will not accept you genuinely believed that you were guaranteed a certain job.

blastomama Sun 11-Mar-18 12:32:20

I think it sounds like an interesting case. Universities do make specific claims about the value of a degree and what you will be able to do with it, and they are not always accurate.
They should be accountable for their descriptions and promises same as an other company, given the sums of money involved.

blastomama Sun 11-Mar-18 12:34:41

It seems the university is in fact lying about their worth. The prospectus claims to have world leading research, that is not true.
What else are they lying about?

Petalflowers Sun 11-Mar-18 12:38:17

Surely she should have done her research before applying and completing the course.

I've got a year 13 ds and we've been researching uni's, their reputation,,courses, employment prospects, student satisfaction etc. It's all online now, unlike in my day when you visited the uni and chose the one because it had a better shopping centre (and maybe course!).

As someone above said, even if 95% of past students got top city jobs in the past, it doesn't mean they will this year.

Unemfuckingployable Sun 11-Mar-18 12:39:55

It’s also interesting that she was awarded a First. Now, officially, all degrees are externally validated to ensure that a First from Anglia Ruskin means the same as a First from any other university. Of course, no one believes this to be the case, and it will be interesting to see whether this case forces an open admission of that fact.

blastomama Sun 11-Mar-18 12:40:40

My cat could get a first from Anglia Ruskin.

Creambun2 Sun 11-Mar-18 12:41:12

"world-leading research" is subjective and if there is one outstanding department (as lots of post 92 universities do have) of course they will plaster promotional material with such statements. Might be disingenuous but come on - people need to do their own research.

A quick glance at one of the league tables, of course these are in no-way a perfect assessment, shows anglia ruskin at 72 out of 121.

CuriousaboutSamphire Sun 11-Mar-18 12:42:20

A yes! The commodification of education.

You were warned, many educators tried to scream this from the rooftops... and everyone laughed!

You used to do some research about the university and the course before you applied.

You used to know that they claims they make are for high achieving students, mainly because you used to check the data before applying.

You use to know that Anglia Ruskin is a good but not great Uni that used to be CCAT, Cambridge College of Arts and Technology, the Anglia Polytechnic and that it had sod all to do with Cambridge University, it is not collegiate.

Having said that, she'll have trouble proving it isn't world class, other lists regard it very highly, including Time Higher Ed!

Part of her complaint is that students were, on occasion, told to do some self study! My how things have changed.... she was at university not in school, maybe she should have expected to do some independent work... sorry I did mean a lot of independent work

I expect there will be lots ore of this... as universities are forced to spoon feed in order for all students to achieve the very best outcomes. A bit like all students having to achieve better than average math results!

Inthedeepdarkwinter Sun 11-Mar-18 12:43:06

Universities can't make untrue claims, any more than other advertisers can. Students from around the world can't visit campuses so they are dependent on league tables (which are fixed in sooooo many ways, all the good institutions spend a lot of time on these metrics and neglect others) and on promotional material. If it says 'world class research' and in fact, no world class (as measured by the Research Excellence Framework) was done in that department, then that's an untrue claim.

Of course, what she does with her degree is up to her, and I can see how holding up placards denigrating the university at the graduation wouldn't probably be a good use of that time.

But they still can't lie.

BumpowderSneezeonAndSnot Sun 11-Mar-18 12:44:06

I thought Anglia Ruskin university was more of a vocational university specialising in nursing and affiliated professions?

HairyToity Sun 11-Mar-18 12:45:00

I think when you have moved from abroad, you may not have that local knowledge, and rely more on prospectus. An interesting case.

I will be discouraging my children from getting into debt for a mickey mouse degree.

Walkingdeadfangirl Sun 11-Mar-18 12:46:35

If she was genuine then why did she wait until after she had graduated to do this. Surly if it was a duff degree she should have done this in her first year at Uni. She is just a gold digger.

CuriousaboutSamphire Sun 11-Mar-18 12:47:18

If it says 'world class research' and in fact, no world class (as measured by the Research Excellence Framework) was done in that department, then that's an untrue claim. But it is true that they do have some word class research, so it is not be an untrue claim!

PaddyF0dder Sun 11-Mar-18 12:48:05

shrug

Buyer beware.

Inthedeepdarkwinter Sun 11-Mar-18 12:49:33

If she was genuine then why did she wait until after she had graduated to do this Apparently she protested at the graduation against the crap teaching, and was removed from the graduation!

titchy Sun 11-Mar-18 12:49:38

Whilst I won't claim ARU is in the upper echelons of UK HEIs, I'm not sure you can damn their claim for having world leading research - they DO in fact have some world leading research, including in Business (6% world leading, with 45% regarded as internationally excellent).

University do in fact get called on any spurious claims they make - the CMA is very heavily involved in this these days and has required several to amend/clarify/remove their claims.

Inthedeepdarkwinter Sun 11-Mar-18 12:54:20

Curious yes, then she'll lose. The point is that whatever claim you make, you have to show it to be true- so if indeed the dep't is full of world class researchers, then that would be a true claim.

Whoever said though that unis play the game all the time, by highlighting where there is world class research and burying the places where they have really poor achievements/lots of dissatisfied students/complains is correct, and pretty much anyone in marketing is going to do that!

The other point is that she may well be annoyed her Anglia Ruskin degree isn't a path to immense success (although it is higher up the league tables that I would have guestimated)- but she probably wouldn't have got into a higher ranked institution anyway. Although the foreign students I know aren't that fussed about reputation, they want to go where there's other foreign students and they will find the course not too awful.

Walkingdeadfangirl Sun 11-Mar-18 13:19:47

Apparently she protested at the graduation against the crap teaching, and was removed from the graduation! You dont wait until you have eaten the 3 course meal and are paying until you start complaining it tasted awful. You return the food at the start of the first course and refuse to eat anymore.

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