To think that people voting out because of immigration are going to be disappointed?(76 Posts)
I admit I don't really understand in depth but I keep hearing people saying that they'll vote out of the EU because of immigration.
The thing is the government haven't proposed what they'd do about immigration anyway in the event of us going out of the EU.
As a lot of Brits have retired abroad and we are still going to want to trade with all these countries. I've got the feeling that we will end up with free movement anyway as part of whatever deal we come to.
People keep going on about an Australian points style system but no one can be certain that, that will be what happens.
I think a lot of people who want to vote Leave think that there are already too many EU immigrants in the UK, and that at least some of the people who have already come here will be forced to leave. I suspect that won't happen in the event of a Leave vote, at least not in anything like the numbers expected.
Half our immigration comes from outside EU, and is on upward trend.
A lot of EU migrants could get into UK using the non-EU rules (they just don't bother).
Brits going to EU will fall somewhat if we Brexit.
So big net immigration falls won't happen unless economy becomes a disaster.
Don't need to know any future govt policy to figure all that out.
They are going to be pretty disappointed, partially because most people are wildly wrong about the actual level of immigration (they massively over estimate).
They'll also be disappointed because those who are most bothered about immigration tend to live in areas with the least immigration. So there won't actually be much change for them.
Finally, they'll be disappointed because if we leave and try for a Norwegian option (as seems favoured by the Brexit lot) then little will change: we'll have to accept free movement of EU nationals, we'll have to pay into the EU (probably a lot more than we do atm as we'll have lost the rebate) only now we won't have any say. We won't be able to vote for MEPs and the government of the day will no longer have to say, but just have to accept regulations and rules.
Brexit will change nothing, except that we lose our democratic rights to have a say.
YANBU but at least it will give them something to moan about for many years to come.
Brexit will not achieve any of the aims claimed for it.
It will however lead inevitably to the breakup of the United Kingdom. Scotland will demand a new referendum, and Northern Ireland will gradually become untenable.
sallyingforth will there also be swarms of locusts!
Staying in or voting out will both bring major changes and their are major risks. By having the vote the genie was let out of the bott.e/
If Scotland vote again and they vote to leave that is democracy and the same with Northern Ireland.
with the oil situation I am not so sure that the Scots would and also I think that Nicola is a bit too canny to do it unless it would be a landslide win.
I think YABU
If we Leave we can change the rules and get controlled immigration (if that is what the majority of the electorate want).
People are so used to being in the EU they have forgotten that when we are out we will be a sovereign nation. We will actually be able to make our own rules.
YANBU. I live in Switzerland which has a Schengen Agreement and as part of this there is free movement of EU citizens.
Immigrants make up approx 25% of the population. Mainly EU.
I bet most people in the UK complaining couldn't tell you the % of immigrants.
What surprised me the most was the nationalities... Poland the largest group, but second was ROI and third was Germany!!!
Yet all I hear from cantankerous moaners on Facebook, is complaints about Romanians. They are small in comparison.
They'll also be disappointed because those who are most bothered about immigration tend to live in areas with the least immigration.
I've noticed that a lot. Where I live it's really multicultural and we all rub along nicely. Some of dhs workmates live rurally and are terrified of 'foreigners' despite having probably never met any!
I've been thinking about Norway.
They have EU free movement and are Schengen members. What if, to get the mythical Norway-style trade deal with the EU, they make joining Schengen a condition, so instead of stopping immigration, we actually have fully open borders instead (rather than just one open border with a non-Schengen state, as is the case now)?
Yanbu if Cameron gets to sort out the leaving terms.
Yabu if he doesn't.
Some of brexit are saying they won't necessarily want to be in the single market therefore there is no need to have a free movement policy,
Immigrant here. If the UK genuinely wants to control immigration - rather than using immigration as a bogeyman, as it currently seems to - we need to make it harder for people to work here illegality.
As it stands, you can arrive today from any country in the world, with not many skills and not much English, and get a very poorly paid job on the black market and go under the radar in a big city. It means that lots of people are willing to have a go at moving to the UK. It also means that legal workers have their prices driven down, competing with people who are desparate enough to work for £2 an hour.
It's not the only problem (obviously) but it is absolutely huge and doesn't get near enough attention. From talking with colleagues this kind of thing is much harder in France, Germany, Austria.
We also need a more efficient version of the UKBA / Home Office. I came here as a student on one passport, then acquired EU nationality while I was here. I duly informed the Home Office of my new status, with a copy of all documents. Two years later (!) they got in touch, apparently having mislaid my letter, to say that they thought I was here illegally and would I mind terribly leaving the country.
If these things aren't resolved people will simply keep coming.
There're no guarantees we'd have controlled immigration surely? We might have to accept free movement as part of whatever trade deal we come to.
We do t know what levels of immigration the government would accept in any case.
YANBU. If we are to survive, we would have to negotiate a free trade deal with the EU. Free movement would be condition of that. So we would have all the disadvantages with absolutely no say in matters that vitally affect us.
I am voting leave for many reasons. Although I do believe multiculturism is a good thing and we have been multicultural for much of our history, when it impacts on our culture it is too much.
Cross post with thickandthin I suppose that depends on the government at the time.
And Australia's population is 2/3 immigrants anyway!!!
With that system in place.
And can you imagine Boris Johnson for UK and Donald Trump for US running 2 of the biggest economies in the world.
Heaven help us!!!!
All of the talk about immigration, the economy, the health service etc.etc. is all very important and key to our decision making when it comes to how to vote, however, given that no one really knows what the impact will be but (just like the scare tactics around Y2K) planes wont fall out of the sky and the UK won't sink into the sea should we take back running our own country. We managed for centuries.
The key issue is that over the decades/centuries people have fought for democracy. To be governed by a democratically elected body of people (parliament) who are voted for by the people to run the country for the people (not run the people for the country).
Where and when did we, a democratically free people, evern elect to have our laws and way of life dictated to by an unelected (and expansive) body of people who don't live in this country and do not understand the way of life of, not just British people, but those other cultures across Europe.
We can't elect to remove them because they are not elected, we can't decide to stop paying for them (even though they cannot balance their own books).
When did democracy get given away or did it happen so gradually that until it became so large and unwieldy that we suddenly sat up and took notice deciding that enough was enough. who gave a democratically elected government the right to dictate to us that we should accept the laws and regulations imposed on us?
Yes some things have been a benefit but do these outweigh our loss of ability to govern ourselves?
It's a bit like having someone move into your house without your permission, not pay rent, charge you for the privilege and then tell you how to live, what to eat and what you may or may not buy.
Just a thought!
Yanbu. If we want to be part of the free trade area, then we will have to accept freedom of movement. However, there's a slight complication that Schauble has said that Germany will not be willing to accept the UK being part of the free trade area if we vote out, out is out. But it won't stop immigration anyway, because not all immigrants come from the EU. The massive economic decline will probably reduce immigration though...
The massive economic decline will probably reduce immigration though..
Im voting leave but not because of immigration.
It isnt the biggest issue, not by a long way.
But I do think its intresting how people are saying if we leave we will "have" to do x, y or z.
No one has left before. No one has a clue how or if we could negotiate future trading deals with the EU, or what effect Britain leaving would have on it.
I think its a possibility if Britain do leave other countries may demand their own consider following suit and when it comes to negotiating trade deals we will be in a very different position to what Norway was.
Of course its pure speculation, but I think Britain leaving could have a greater effect on the EU then is being considered.
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