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To worry about the Judges attitude in Levelle Verdict.

(306 Posts)
daiseehope Tue 10-Sep-13 15:24:01

I believe I need to state that this man has been found not guilty of all charges etc. I am an abuse victim who is taking a case to court. AIBU as apparently the Judge stated to the Jury prior to deciding that the sic "manner and appearance of the alleged victim and how she appears to you is vital". I don't think that's right.hmm hmm

xkittyx Tue 10-Sep-13 15:47:52

If the police and prosecution service thought there was enough ofa case for a potential conviction then of course they won't now prosecute her.
Sex crimes have a very low conviction rate.

MinesAPintOfTea Tue 10-Sep-13 15:49:02

Sadly this is the only fair outcome with a single victim and no verifiable evidence. We can't send someone to jail on the word of one person, whatever they are accused of. This is why convictions only usually happen with multiple victims or physical evidence.

I would however be most upset should their be any suggestion that the victim did the wrong thing in reporting him. She spoke up about a past wrong, and we need people to feel they can do that, even if we can't always find guilty when we would hope to be able to do so.

Leopoldina Tue 10-Sep-13 15:49:05

there was a lot which couldn't be reported so that the victim / complainant was not identifiable. What was not reported may well be of great significance, and given the speed with which the jury have acquitted on all charges, the judge's direction to the jury in relation to the girl is quite possibly of a great significance that we should never be aware of.

squoosh Tue 10-Sep-13 15:51:22

'What will happen to the alleged victim then? Will she be prosecuted for wasting so much time & money?'

I'm not referring to this case but are you saying that if someone makes an accusation that leads to a court case which they then lose this automatically means they are lying and should be prosecuted?

Innocent people never go to prison, guilty people never walk free?

daiseehope Tue 10-Sep-13 15:51:24

Fair point Leopoldina.

daiseehope Tue 10-Sep-13 15:53:31

All I see ahead is an inevitable NG in that case. Why am I bothering? People will just think I'm a liar, I just want to stop it happening to anyone else if I can.

HavantGuard Tue 10-Sep-13 15:55:56

'We can't send someone to jail on the word of one person, whatever they are accused of.'

People like you are the reason the conviction rates for rape and sexual assault are so low.

StuntGirl Tue 10-Sep-13 15:55:58

I found a lot of the language used in this case uncomfortable and distasteful. Very sad for all involved, only those two really know what happened.

BeCool Tue 10-Sep-13 15:57:27

"Sadly this is the only fair outcome with a single victim and no verifiable evidence."

Which is one HUGE reason why rape is so prevalent in our society.
It's truly sickening.

noddyholder Tue 10-Sep-13 15:59:01

Why would she make it up about him?

Leopoldina Tue 10-Sep-13 15:59:30

reading between the lines of the age of the complainant and LeVell's personal circumstances, combined with the language used by his counsel in summing up, there seems to (me) to be a fairly obvious story behind this.
While the conviction rates in sex crimes are depressingly low, it is equally appalling that someone who is wrongfully accused and does not have the benefit of anonymity that the accuser has will for the rest of their life be eyed with suspicion. I don't know what the solution is, and the adversarial method of cross examination is simultaneously necessary and horrific for the victims / complainants.

FreudiansSlipper Tue 10-Sep-13 16:01:06

"Sadly this is the only fair outcome with a single victim and no verifiable evidence."

this is often very true

but we have not heard all the evidence of this case, there may be other reasons we have not heard of why he was not found guilty

BeCool Tue 10-Sep-13 16:01:07

Havant yes it was a serious, but sarcastic question. (Should have used sarcastic font.)

The alleged victim's testimony can't have been believed by the jury. I wonder then if they actually believe she was making it up?

Sirzy Tue 10-Sep-13 16:02:51

She spoke up about a past wrong

That is assuming there is a past wrong.

And this is part of the problem with such cases shit sticks and irrespective of the fact he has been found not guilty he is forever going to be remember for this.

Only 2 people know what if anything did happen. The courts have found him not guilty though yet people are still assuming he is actually guilty.

Leopoldina Tue 10-Sep-13 16:03:10

from what I've read, the complainant only remembered the abuse after many years had elapsed, and after taking some kind of therapy / course. Suggests false memory syndrome?

cantspel Tue 10-Sep-13 16:03:15

People do strange things hence you have trials and juries.

This case does make me feel uncomfortable as i do ask myself why someone would make it up but then i also wonder how a mum wouldn't notice her 6 year old had been raped and why there was no medical evidence at all. Surely you cannot rape a 6 year old without doing major damage to them?

either way i am very glad i was not on the jury.

Bowlersarm Tue 10-Sep-13 16:04:54

Why would she make it up about him

Why do people make up lies about anything? Sadly they do.

Leopoldina Tue 10-Sep-13 16:06:20

quite, cantspel - like that terrible story yesterday of the Yemeni 8 yr old child bride who died from her wedding night injuries. (equally I don't think that the UK legal definition of rape means that it's necessarily an actual cock that has to do the raping, it can be insertion of other smaller things)

meditrina Tue 10-Sep-13 16:06:24

Well, we'll never know why the Jury reached the verdict (it's an offence to disclose their deliberations) and I suspect, given the need in this case to restrict reporting to protect identities, there will be much that the public never knows.

I suppose it all comes down to whether there is trust in a Jury system and whether both sides had competent representation at the trial.

Onesleeptillwembley Tue 10-Sep-13 16:08:59

I have to wonder if there was someone behind the accuser pushing this. I have actually wondered this all the way through.

Nancy66 Tue 10-Sep-13 16:09:34

I can't see how the jury could have reached any other verdict in this particular case.

When you do jury service it is drummed into you how utterly convinced you must be to find somebody guilty.

HavantGuard Tue 10-Sep-13 16:10:01

grin at sarcastic font.

I don't know the details of the case. The problem generally is that juries start off from the position of not wanting to believe that this kind of thing happens. Who wants to think about normal looking people, men who could be their next door neighbour or the person they sit near at work, would do something like this? Who wants to think that the danger is less the stranger in the dark alley and more the friend's cousin you met at her housewarming party who offers to drop you home as it's on his way and you'd have to wait ages for a taxi on a Friday night? Add on attitudes like Minesapintoftea's and the conviction rate makes sense.

limitedperiodonly Tue 10-Sep-13 16:11:30

so if he is innocent will his accuser now be prosecuted for falsely accusing him of rape?

It doesn't mean she falsely accused him. It means the jury found him not guilty.

noddyholder Tue 10-Sep-13 16:11:38

I found it unusual that MLV took the opportunity to discredit the supposed victim and refer to her as an attention seeker etc in such a serious case. I also think if it was made up she was 'encouraged' in some way

Leopoldina Tue 10-Sep-13 16:12:15

you see I'd say the opposite; when it's a six year old girl in question who is still only a teenager, jury sympathy (& public sympathy as we can see from the general response on this thread) is going to be with the child.
What onesleep said.

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