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So am I just looking for fault?

(62 Posts)
TheEnthusiasticTroll Fri 09-Nov-12 22:20:33

This be long as I am trying to see this from this all perspectives.

Dd aged 6 in year 2, made a remark about another child who is black. She was passing him a black button and said that he didn't need a button as his face was black.

Another child who is slightly older than dd, not sure the relevance, but this girl is far more grown up than my dd said " that's well racist, I'm making sure the teacher knows what you said" and then proceeded to march dd to the head with out her class teacher realising until they had left the class room.

The head shouts at dd, "that is rude, how dare you be so rude, now get back to your class room and get on with your work" and leaves the other child to escort dd back to class, whilst passing the class teacher who is looking for the girls.

This is according to dd, but I have no reason to feel this is inaccurate.

Dd is hysterical when leaving class and so teacher says we need to have a word, I take dd into the hall and she is inconsolable and won't tell me what is wrong, because she says "I did something terrible, I don't know what it is but you will be so angry with me" .

Teacher then sorts out children who aren't collected in time to the office and we go to class, dd asks to wait outside and teacher says no you must come in, dd is absolutely hysterical so I tell her to go and wash her face and ta from other class offers to look after her. The ta takes my hand and says you must tell her off as she didn't realise what she said. At that point I said of course I won't tell her off, it's obviously been dealt with. She takes dd into toilets and then her class room.

Dds class teacher tells me dd said something that was racist, I ask want it was and she said, I'm not to sure it was something about anther child, x, he is our little black boy shock not needing a button passed to him as he could put his face in the picture as he is black.

Ok I said, fair enough that seems that it could be unkind to the little boy and hurt his feelings, though I'm not sure this was dds intent to be racist. Can I ask how it was dealt with as dd is visibly upset, she assures me, she doesn't know but that the head obviously had to get involved because it was termed as racist. Bit she is sure it would have been delt with appropriately.

I explained I didn't feel she was coming across to well and it may be useful for me to talk to the head to gain some clarity and context as to how this was dot with as I would expect it should have been delalt with sensativly and as dd was so upset and she was unsure herself, I think I would get more information from the head.

So talk to head who explains that as it was comment regarding another child's race that could be hurtful it must be addressed. I did not disagree and expressed that dd has no concept of racism I would hope it was first most addressed in a manner that she realised it was unkind over and above anything else. The head agreed this happened but that she had to explain to dd how and why it race was an important issue here, I agreed I would do the same had I heard a similar comment, but I just did t want a seed to planted that otherwise may not occur to dd.

Anyway this is a very different explanation than dd gave me regarding, the head just shouting at her.

I explained to dd about racism and she said that's the word the other child used but the had not explained that to her, she just shouted at her for being rude and sent her back to class.

Now my concerns are the language used by the class teacher.

The fact that the head has seemingly not dealt with this in the sensitive manner as she had told me she had and dd not realising what she had done wrong.

Another child being able to march my dd to the head from a classroom and the class teacher not knowing this was happening.

Am I just seeing fault as this was handled sensitively as I would have in a way that would let my dd understand why this was not a nice thing to say.

Whatnowffs Fri 09-Nov-12 22:33:30

So, your child passed the lad a black button to use to represent his face? I take it they were doing some sort of craft to do with self portraits? Would the black child not have picked a dark coloured button himself anyway?? I really can't see how your child has been racist! Of course we have to educate our children not to be racist and not make unkind or thoughtless comments abut peoples differences, whether it be the colour of their skin or the colour of their hair!

I have read this that one child has taken it upon themselves to call your child a racist, taken your child out of the room (HOW THE HELL COULD THIS HAPPEN). The head teacher shouted at the children because she had been disturbed?

Then the teacher refers to the black boy as "our little black boy" shock

The teacher should have used this as an opportunity to discuss racism and how making comments about other peoples skin colour isn't appropriate. How is your child supposed to know its not OK if she isn't told, but she shoudlnt have been made to feel like she has been naughty.

I would be demanding an apology, they totally over reacted and i would be livid!

Ilovemydogandmydoglovesme Fri 09-Nov-12 22:37:04

This has been blown completely out of proportion.

Your dd was making a simple observation that the two things were the same colour. She wasn't discriminating against the colour in question, merely pointing it out. If the boy had red hair and wanted a red button would it have attracted the same attention? Briging attention to an innocent comment has implied the racism. Your dd wasn't actually racist and I would be having a word with the head once you have calmed down.

I would also let the head know that the other girl who made the accusation needs a little quiet explanation. Of what actually constitutes racism, and also perhaps, bullying?

TheEnthusiasticTroll Fri 09-Nov-12 22:41:00

It wasn't portrait work they where doing as far as I can gather it was just collage work, so the button wasn't representing the child, dd made that connection her self and voiced it without thinking or realising what she was saying,mas far as I can gather.

I did talk to the head and was satisfied by her explanation, however later talking to dd it does not match up. I was pretty livid after talking to class teacher and so talked to the head and she reassured me it was dealt with sensitively, but as far as I can gather form dd she didn't really understand what had occurred until I gave her an explanation as to why making remarks about someone skin colour isn't the same as making comment about skin clour or body shape, for instance. I used the word racist and she said that's the word the other child used but she didn't know what it means, she said the boy in question didn't hear her.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Fri 09-Nov-12 22:42:59

Not the same ah hair colour I mean

WorraLiberty Fri 09-Nov-12 22:44:29

It's been blown hugely out of proportion and has been dealt with badly.

My main concern is that another child was able to remove your DD from the class without being spotted.

The teachers are supposed to know where the kids are at all times.

Did you complain about this? What did they say?

NatashaBee Fri 09-Nov-12 22:50:54

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Fri 09-Nov-12 22:51:28

I didn't complain about this as dd gave me this version of events after I had talked with the head and was satisfied she had dealt with this appropriately and sensitively, dd then told me the child had said that's well racist and marched her out the class. The teacher passed them on the way back and I assume then found out from the head what had happened.

Sorry aware my OP is littered with spelling mistakes, on ipad and it has autocorrect so I miss lots of mistakes blush.

All I said to head was that the class teacher had explained things so well just wanted to understand what had happened. So told me it wa of course dealt with sensitively, but then dd gave me her account of events and they didn't match up.

I'm not sure wether to just accept what happened and know I have now given dd the appropriate explanation or wether to take these concerns back to the head, but she clearly has lied to me about how she dealt with it, so what am I going to archive in that.

Celticlassie Fri 09-Nov-12 23:03:58

That is mental with so small a child. I teach secondary age children and even with a 16 year old, who should be well aware of racism, would have gone down the "perhaps that wasn't the most senstiive way to put it?" route rather than shouting at them had the same thing happened in my class.

For the HT and the class teacher (although it seems like she did feck all) not to take the time to talk to her and recognise that what she said was not racist at all, just a throwaway comment, is unforgivable, especially for a child as little as yours.

midseasonsale Fri 09-Nov-12 23:05:53

I wouldn't accept it. I would email saying you are very concerned as DD said tonight that head didn't talk to her about things but just shouted at her. Say your DD has no idea what racism is and you expect such issues to be dealt with gently. You feel she was let down and that the school has over reacted to something that was said in complete innocence.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Fri 09-Nov-12 23:27:23

I did also explain to dd that in theory the other child had done the correct thing in high listing this, but pointed out how she could have done it differently, dd questioned that she was too young to know about that kind of thing. So I told her that maybe she had made a similar comment and someone had had explained the same to her and maybe that's why she knows about racism.

I just pointed out to my dd that if she felt the need to highlife similar things or stand up for someone else that it would be more sensible to tell the teacher quietly rather than embarrassing another child or involving the head teacher above the class teacher.

cumfy Sat 10-Nov-12 00:19:12

So strange how the head so casually accepts:
1. one 6yr old presenting another 6yr old and a string of allegations.
2. Then simply accepts as fact those allegations and proceeds to discipline one child at the behest of another.

shock
If this is what happened would report head to board of governors.

blueballoon79 Sat 10-Nov-12 06:41:59

I had a similar incident a few years ago with my DS.

He was 9 years old at the time and saw a 9 year old girl bullying a 5 year old boy. He then told the girl to leave the little black boy alone (admittedly not very PC but hardly a racist attack)

The 9 year old girl then told a dinner lady that my son had called a 5 year old a "little black boy" and she reported it and told him off for being a racist. Next he was walking past the Head teacher who was very quickly told the situation and also called him a racist and the bullying nine year old girl got away with it.

I went into school the next day and had a word and told them he was using black as a describing word not a derogotary term and that he was in fact sticcking up for the 5 year old boy and they all apologised and admitted it was blown out of proportion.

Any "proper" racist incidents which happen in schools nowadays have to be reported. I suggest finding out if it's been reported and if not then why are they calling her a racist and shouting at her?

It sounds to me as though your daughter did nothing wrong. She's only 5 for goodness sake! Sometimes I think schools are just PC gone mad!

jendot Sat 10-Nov-12 08:50:25

We too had a similar incident last year.
My yr 5 boy was playing a game with 5 boys where they were naming each other 'something noddy' for the game. One boy said to my son you can be 'fat noddy' and my son replied you can be 'black noddy'
The whole conversation was overheard and my son was hauled infront of the head for being 'racist' he was formally disciplined, punished, parents were called in and the school formally recorded it as a racial attack!!!!!
While I understand what he said was insensitive and that he needed this to be pointed out to him I was LIVID that the school went SO over the top about it. My so was distraught for weeks about it! What I found worse was the view of the school that calling my son 'fat' was not worthy of reprimand but 'black' was the crime of the century!

I feel your pain op! Racial incidents in school (event incidents that were not in any way meant to be racist) are so over blown up!

StrawberriesTasteLikeLipsDo Sat 10-Nov-12 08:57:53

Thats is bloody ridiculous. Duty of care springs to mind! The teacher should not have allowed another child to Remove yours from class.. That in itself would have been cause of complaint. Add to that the way its been handled (a non incident blown out of all proportion leave your DD visibly upset!) and the teachers blatant racism herself.. YADNBU

Alliwantisaroomsomewhere Sat 10-Nov-12 09:08:59

This whole incident is a complete bloody mess. I would record everything that happened, OP, from what your DD told you, to what the teacher said, and HT etc etc . Then send a copy of your record to the HT and to the board of Governors. Bloody ridiculous.

Everyone is so fucking scared of being called a racist that ridiculous things like this happen.

YANBU at all.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Sat 10-Nov-12 09:18:38

Dd got up this morning and asked if needed to talk to the school again. I told her I might, she said she didn't want me to as she can't remember what happened and she is worried she got it wrong, she said the head may not have just shouted at her but she thinks she might have said some other things.

So I have no explained to dd that its important she tells me the truth. She's not talking and wants it all forgotten. I told her I will draw a line under it now but that its important I know the whole story from her in the beginning in future so I can make sure she is being treated fairly.

As I'm now not sure what happened I think I will leave it. What a head ache, even if dd has not been 100% accurate, I'm still not convinced that it was handled perfectly by the school.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Sat 10-Nov-12 09:21:10

Does anyone know if I am permitted to view the incident report if one has been recorded?

DesperatelySeekingSedatives Sat 10-Nov-12 09:33:05

So your DD got a bollocking at the say so of another child? shock I'd be complaining about the whole thing myself.

The fact that this child was able to escort your's out the classroom without the teacher noticing, the fact the head teacher told your child off (and proper shouted at her by the sound of it) basing this all on what another child has said. The fact that the teacher (or the TA?) referred to the young boy in question as "our little black boy" shock

You are in no way overreacting. Your poor DD. I wonder if the little boy was even bothered by what she said? I mean, she didn't insult him. And from waht I can see (ok, I'm white) she wasn't racist anyway.

Millais Sat 10-Nov-12 09:38:29

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheEnthusiasticTroll Sat 10-Nov-12 09:41:10

Thanks Millais I think I will ask to see it just to ensure it has been carried out as that will clarify to me how it has been managed and may give me chance to mention the class teacher used some pretty poor language her self ie our little black boy, if nothing else

Eglantyne Sat 10-Nov-12 09:41:16

Small children using colours to describe each other surely isn't racist?! My son shares the same name as another boy in his class, and the other children often refer them as "the one with white skin" and "the one with brown skin". I'm very good friends with the other boy's mum, so I can guarantee she doesn't have a problem with this. Should we?

Vaginald Sat 10-Nov-12 09:46:59

Argh your poor child! I'm mixed race, and IMHO what she said wasn't slightly racist. That word shouldn't be bandied about by the school, especially to describe 6 year olds. I work with teens and some foul language comes out of their mouths ragarding race, and even then I would never refer to them as racist. Hope this gets sorted out quickly, the whole situation was dealt with awfully. The teacher referring to him as "our little black boy" is much more alarming tbh.

ChippingInLovesAutumn Sat 10-Nov-12 09:52:31

That is atrocious - from every angle. There's no way I'd be letting this be the end of it. I wouldn't want my child at a school that handles things this badly - a complete pack of incompetents.

Your poor DD - it's no wonder she's confused.

What have they done about Bossy Britches?

lovebunny Sat 10-Nov-12 12:28:55

she's six. so is the black boy, i assume. they need to be together, having both sides explained. and having an explanation that even though they didn't know it, this is something people take very seriously because it can be very hurtful. and personal remarks, such as 'you're black' (or even 'i like your hair' if it is to an older person), are bad manners, so we don't make them.

lack of skill all round. teacher, headteacher, t a, need to be more on the ball - but no-one can be perfect all the time.

miss-bossy-boots-stick-your-nose-in-march-a-classmate-to-the-headteacher needs a serious talking-to. her self-righteous behaviour caused a great deal of upset to your little daughter and presumably embarrassment to the teacher, the headteacher and the t a. she needs to know that the correct response to something that concerns her is to report it to the teacher, not attempt to deal with it herself.

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